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To: loboinok
"They have succeeded in convincing most that the 1st means exactly the opposite of our Founder's intent. "

I'm afraid not. The intent of the founders is contained in the documents they prepared, signed and became law. What you posted was their personal thoughts, which are not law.

You need to learn and understand that God is not in charge, this is not His kingdom and that men are in charge. You need to know and understand that the only moral way to interact with other men is rationally. All rights and the morals that are intended to protect those rights must have a rational foundation. The foundation is the purpose, because the very invention of rights and morals requires a purpose and that purpose is that all men enjoy their life and the individual sovereignty of will that is the essence of that life. There's no need, or logical reason to refer to God whatsoever.

Notice that God gave no physical clue whatsoever that He exists. That's the underlying contention of this thread. There are those that acknowledge that and others that fail to. Besides those that can't grasp the science, there are those that simply refuse to accept it regardless. They do that, because their claims and false doctrines are illogical and won't stand on their own rationally. They need to "prove" that God exists, by selectively attacking rational thought and science. God Himself gave no such sign other than His temporary presence as another man, His claim and the sign of Jonah. Matthew 12:39, He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. Notice the word none there, and the uniquely singular exception. It means, there will be no sign given in nature, and that includes the nonsense of ID.

That man was entirely rational, yet many of those that claim to know Him are still wallowing in the irrational depths that existed before He came to hold class. In Gen 3 He said man was to live by His own hands and in Matt 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." That means to use the rational faculties that are equal to God's, as per Gen 1, to live as free individuals and protect that gift that was given from the beginning.

You see, God is a rational agent and so too are men. They were created in the image and likeness of God, as per Gen 1 and John 10:33-36, "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
"Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[Psalm 82:6]? If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?.

You can't claim man is incapable of doing this either, because of some fall, or imperfection. The above passages hold and the claims of the Council of Orange regarding the existence of original sin are wrong. Ezekiel 18, the failure of the Jews to ever note such a thing and John 9 prove that. So if God had His reasons for rights, moral codes, whatever, then man can come up with the same without referring to God. Notice, God did it w/o ever referring to another being. If He can do it, so can all y'all. There's no justifiable reason to stagnate in ignorance.

This is my religion, it's non-axiomatic, because it's based on what God Himself said and I believe in science and the results of the scientific method. I expect to be able to freely exercise my religion, I don't want my kids taught another and I want them to learn science. I don't want them taught arbitrary nonscientific rubbish invented, because of someone else's axiomatic religious motivations.

582 posted on 09/24/2006 11:15:43 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: spunkets

Interesting post.


586 posted on 09/24/2006 11:19:05 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Virginia-American

You were involved with the prior posts for the reply in #582.


587 posted on 09/24/2006 11:20:17 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: spunkets
Another freeper, I don't remember who, in a moment of brilliant enlightenment said:

Science deals with the "how" of evolution.
Religion deals with the "why" of evolution.

End of story.

592 posted on 09/25/2006 12:07:22 AM PDT by Jeff Gordon (History convinces me that bad government results from too much government. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: spunkets

I thank you for your concern of my needs, but can assure you that what little time I have left on this earth... evolution and the religion of islam, will not be among those needs.


882 posted on 09/25/2006 11:48:09 PM PDT by loboinok (Gun control is hitting what you aim at!)
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