[thomaswest]

Re 181: And the idea that society should have complete control over their kids' upbringing and education is not a realistic position, given the number of evil governments that have existed. Germany, Japan, Russia, and China are perfect examples of that. I remember growing up, in school they told us in the Soviet Union children were encouraged to tell on their parents if they did anything disloyal to the Motherland. Our parents of course were smart enough to tell us never talk to any non-family member about the family for this very reason. And yet more and more of this intrusion by government is happening in this country. The only universal law about government is that it can never be trusted. Never. Thus our Constitution.

An excellent post. Every one of your points is on target.

My point is that throughout time, shamans, churches, priests, and pastors have tried to gain control of government to promote their agendas, claiming a god-given "morality". They have gained huge tax-exempt benefits. They have self-promotion and self-interest as non-productives.

Obviously many parents are wonderful, they provide support and encouragement for the growth and social and intellectual development of their children, as best they know from their own upbringing. Equally obvious, many parents are poor in these ways--they bring baggage from their own lives, and impose this on their kids.

It would be nice if we could decide on which parents are worthy and which are unfit. I do not see how Gary Bauer or Jerry Falwell or the pope should be given the authority to decide.

[microgood]

It would be nice if we could decide on which parents are worthy and which are unfit. I do not see how Gary Bauer or Jerry Falwell or the pope should be given the authority to decide.

I agree. At the same time, since by far most parents have the child in their best interests, even if problems do occur, the state should do its best to keep the family together. You can see from that 3rd link of post 196 that newer initiatives keeping the families together have proven to be quite successful.

Clinton passed a law that provided funding for each foster parent they could put a child with. In Washington state, they started taking children away from perfectly good parents just to get the money. It took several large lawsuits to turn it around.