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Evolution's bottom line
National Center for Science Education ^ | 12 May 2006 | Staff

Posted on 05/12/2006 12:13:47 PM PDT by PatrickHenry

In his op-ed "Evolution's bottom line," published in The New York Times (May 12, 2006), Holden Thorp emphasizes the practical applications of evolution, writing, "creationism has no commercial application. Evolution does," and citing several specific examples.

In places where evolution education is undermined, he argues, it isn't only students who will be the poorer for it: "Will Mom or Dad Scientist want to live somewhere where their children are less likely to learn evolution?" He concludes, "Where science gets done is where wealth gets created, so places that decide to put stickers on their textbooks or change the definition of science have decided, perhaps unknowingly, not to go to the innovation party of the future. Maybe that's fine for the grownups who'd rather stay home, but it seems like a raw deal for the 14-year-old girl in Topeka who might have gone on to find a cure for resistant infections if only she had been taught evolution in high school."

Thorp is chairman of the chemistry department at the University of North Carolina.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: butwecondemnevos; caticsnotchristian; christiannotcatlic; crevolist; germany; ignoranceisstrength; ignorantcultists; pavlovian; speyer
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To: donh; curiosity; Right Wing Professor; jec41; All
Since none of us knows each other, we take people's words for whether Curiosity is a Christian, whether donh is a Christian, whether RWP is a Christian; whether jec41 is a Christian, whether ol' furball is a Christian.

So why shouldn't we take Adolph Hitler's word for whether he is a Christian? Granted Mein Kampf was written to inflame the right sort of people, and granted Hitler was a monster of the greatest proportion. Granted Osama is a monster of the same ilk. But who can say that they do not believe if they say they do? A few here have the nerve to save John Paul II is not a Christian. These judgments are a disgrace to the human species. Judgments based on actions are not only fair but the only ones that can be defended without the "he says" "she says" crap.

Every time a Creationist tries to attach Nazi to Darwin they are going to get this and it is appropriate.

BTW I've read Mein Kampf and it was one of the most boring things I ever waded through. Darwin is boring too. Does that make him a Nazi?
381 posted on 05/12/2006 8:12:17 PM PDT by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: thomaswest


Actually, it was the idea that blacks were inferior that came later. Read the Iliad or the Bible and you'll see in them no hint of the idea that "Ethiopians" were inferior.

And Plato promoted the equlity of females in the Republic long before any "feminist" did.


382 posted on 05/12/2006 8:13:05 PM PDT by mjolnir ("All great change in America begins at the dinner table.")
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To: All
Hitler and nazis had nothing to do with the theory of evolution. BS alert, Code Red Herring!

Anyone who says otherwise is engaging in ad hominem libel, and I invoke Godwin's Law.

Seen any papers Hitler wrote on his fossil discoveries? His analysis of Dart's Australopithecus finds?

Give it a rest and argue the actual merits of evolution and leave the Hitler-nazi junk to the trash bin of history, where it belongs.

383 posted on 05/12/2006 8:15:47 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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To: jec41

You certainly have a perspective on this issue, that probably most of us cannot even grasp...thanks so much for sharing that perspective with us...


384 posted on 05/12/2006 8:17:34 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: furball4paws
BTW I've read Mein Kampf and it was one of the most boring things I ever waded through. Darwin is boring too. Does that make him a Nazi?

To some it seems. I will defend myself anytime I am referred to as a Darwinist, Atheist or Nazi by one that still thinks themselves a clone. I am rereading Darwin now after 46 years and yea, he is boring.

385 posted on 05/12/2006 8:25:57 PM PDT by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)
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To: stands2reason
I have the FR evo taint, and it is damn stinky too.

Wolf
386 posted on 05/12/2006 8:26:31 PM PDT by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: Coyoteman

Well said...I would appreciate seeing the merits of evolution evaluated, as well as any well composed, well thought out, scientifically proposed rebuttals...

The nonsense that comes with these threads, about how evolution is responsible for every single ill that has befallen mankind, and how evolution was supported by some of historys most evil folks, all too often, takes away actual meaningful discussion....


387 posted on 05/12/2006 8:26:34 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: jec41

Only because you know the ending. It was white hot stuff 150 years ago.


388 posted on 05/12/2006 8:27:08 PM PDT by js1138
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To: phantomworker

I try to be funny and most of the time I'm a flop, but if you find my stuff funny, I'll make sure to ping you when I think I'm being pretty hilarious.

You'll probably be disappointed, though.


389 posted on 05/12/2006 8:27:48 PM PDT by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: furball4paws; donh; curiosity; Right Wing Professor; jec41; All
So what we've established, I believe, is that Hitler perverted Christianity to suit his own ends.

Interesting that.

Could he have done the same thing with the Theory of Evolution?

... NAH.

390 posted on 05/12/2006 8:28:19 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Right Wing Professor
Speer said anything he thought would spare him from his just desserts.

First of all, he wrote the book after his trial was over. He was going to serve a life sentence no matter what he said. Hence I fail to see any incentive to lie about Hitler's religious beliefs.

Second of all, I don't see how relating that statement to the public would have benefited him even if he had done it before his trial. It might have even hurt him with the Soviet judges, who were anything but devout Christians.

Table-Talk, to the extent that it's a transcript of Hitler's private conversations, and that we have two independent versions, is probably the best we have. You just can't rely on the 1953 translation.

Fair enough. I looked at Carrier's article. While he exposes some of the quotes as be mistranslations, some still appear quite hostile at least to Catholicism. From the article you linked, Carrier claims this to be an accurate quote:

"Christianity teaches 'transubstantiation,' which is the maddest thing ever concocted by a human mind in its delusions, a mockery of all that is godly."

Some Catholic.

Or again, Carrier points out:

For instance, in an entry for the afternoon of 13 December 1941, Hitler rails against the idea of a physical resurrection and in favor of a spiritual one

We now have him denying the most central docrine of Christianity.

The consensus scholarly view seems to be that Hitler had a disdain for traditional Christianity. He had his own theology that incorporated some Christian elements, but it would be an abuse of language to call it Christian since he seemed to deny most of the central doctrines.

391 posted on 05/12/2006 8:29:00 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: visually_augmented
Who would not expect a significant flood every 100 years or even every 500 years?

Those living in deserts. Or on the ocean.

392 posted on 05/12/2006 8:31:41 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: gusopol3
Here's evolution's bottom line : Without the Cretans who continue to hold out in the best intellectual fashion they can for belief in the Creator,

How does belief in a Creator relate to the theory of evolution? Do you have a point to make?
393 posted on 05/12/2006 8:32:33 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: js1138
You expose the fallacy. It has to come from a non-evo source.

You don't need a source. All you need is simply logic.

How can we expose something that is already naked?

LOL.

.

394 posted on 05/12/2006 8:33:27 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity; Right Wing Professor; Gumlegs

I read somewhere a long time ago (in a kingdom by the sea) that Hitler had plans for a new German religion, and he was to be God. Either of you misremember something like this?


395 posted on 05/12/2006 8:34:05 PM PDT by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: Gumlegs
So what we've established, I believe, is that Hitler perverted Christianity to suit his own ends.

Ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!

396 posted on 05/12/2006 8:34:53 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: Dimensio

you haven't made one yet on this thread; I didn't think i had to.


397 posted on 05/12/2006 8:35:23 PM PDT by gusopol3
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To: gusopol3
you haven't made one yet on this thread; I didn't think i had to.

How does your comment relate to the article posted?
398 posted on 05/12/2006 8:36:42 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: furball4paws

OK. Funny is always good. Thanks.


399 posted on 05/12/2006 8:36:46 PM PDT by phantomworker ("I wouldn't hurt you for the world, but you are standing where I am about to shoot." --Quaker quote)
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To: curiosity

It doesn't mean that he didn't consider himself a Christian. You can see that same perversion of Christianity (without the malevolence) on Sunday Morning TV.


400 posted on 05/12/2006 8:37:26 PM PDT by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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