Transcript: Stunning Development in Holloway Case
Tuesday, April 18, 2006
This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," April 17, 2006. It has been edited for clarity.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Why did Aruban police arrest another Dutch teen? Who is he, and can he lead them to Natalee Holloway?
Joining us by videophone in Aruba is Aruban attorney Arlene Ellis Schipper. Arlene, very limited information here in the United States. We know he's 19, and we know he's going to court tomorrow. His initials are "G.V.C."
Do you know anything more that you can tell us?
ARLENE ELLIS SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: Well, the information is limited in Aruba, as well, Greta. The police have confirmed that they have arrested a boy of 19 years old by the initials "G.V.C." indeed. We don't know what the counts are yet and which role he is suspected to have played, but it is related to the Holloway case, and it is considered a major development here, as well.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know if he's formally charged or going to be formally charged, or is he held as a witness?
SCHIPPER: This is the same discussion as we had before, Greta. The word "charge" is not in our legal lingo here and it creates confusion, as we have seen before already. What I can tell you is that witnesses aren't arrested in Aruba, so he is considered a suspect. We shouldn't jump to conclusions, though, on how big a suspect he is. We don't know that. We don't know whether he will replace Joran as a suspect or whether he was added to the case. All that will have to turn up in time.
What we do know, however, is that the prosecution has decided already to extend his police detention for eight more days.
VAN SUSTEREN: We hear his initials, "G.V.C." Why don't we hear his name? Is that the way it's done in Aruba?
SCHIPPER: That's the way how the Dutch system is done. That was also with Joran van der Sloot. It was the media that brought out the name. But officially here, it's protected to just the initials because as you know, our system allows an early arrest on the basis of suspicion. That doesn't necessarily mean that, in the end, you definitively have done that. So there's a very strict protection on the suspect's identity.
VAN SUSTEREN: Arlene, we've heard two things. We've heard, number one, that he works some sort of beach patrol, and number two, that he's a little bit of a beach bum, that he hangs out on the beach. Are you hearing either one of those? Can you confirm either one?
SCHIPPER: Well, I cannot confirm either. The most rumors that I have heard is that he is working on the beach, not necessarily on a patrol. I think that's a mix-up between the father and son. But I would have to say that I cannot confirm either.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. [On Tuesday] he goes to court. Why to court? What happens at this stage?
SCHIPPER: Well, as you may know, under the human rights and under European treaties, a suspect has to see a judge of instruction on the third day, and that is tomorrow, the third day of his detention. What the judge of instruction will do, he will check whether the arrest was made justfully. So he will check whether he can be qualified as a suspect.
Remember, Paulus van der Sloot was not supposed to be qualified as a suspect, and then released. And then he will also check whether the right procedure has been followed. Was he read his rights? Was he treated the right way, et cetera.
But the decision whether the extension of the police custody will go on, that is the decision of the prosecution.
VAN SUSTEREN: He was picked up by the police, arrested by the police. Is that done by the police alone, or does the prosecutor have to sign off on that initial detention?
SCHIPPER: Exactly. The prosecutor has to sign off because he was not caught in the act of something. So when you are not caught in the act, then it's similar to a warrant of an arrest. The prosecutor issues that.
VAN SUSTEREN: So I trust that since Joran van der Sloot and the two Kalpoe brothers were detained the first eight days in a police station and interrogated there, then taken off later to the Aruban correctional facility, that's what will happen here?
SCHIPPER: Exactly. After the 48 hours, which we have passed already, there's an extension of the police detention. The police detention is completely done at the police station. After that, you will have a hearing, where the court decides whether he will go in pre-trial detention. And then he will be, if that is the case, transported to KIA, which is the local prison.
VAN SUSTEREN: Arlene, this arrest has gotten a tremendous amount of attention here in the United States. Is it getting attention in Aruba?
SCHIPPER: Well, undoubtedly, yes, it will get attention tomorrow. Today is still Easter, and we celebrate two days of Easter. So I have to tell you that we don't even have a newspaper today. But tomorrow, I guarantee you the headlines will be filled, and the talk is already on the streets.
VAN SUSTEREN: Arlene, thank you, as always.
Joining us in Los Angeles is Natalee's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty. Good evening, Beth.
BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE'S MOTHER: Hi, Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: Beth, when did you first hear that someone had been detained?
TWITTY: Well, it was Saturday evening, Greta. I guess maybe it was around 9 p.m., Saturday evening.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you get the heads-up this was going to happen? Not that you would in the United States. I don't mean to suggest you would here. But did you get the heads-up?
TWITTY: Oh, yes. John Kelly called immediately when — I guess once he had received the information from Karin Janssen and told me about the arrest — and you know, just grateful to have the knowledge of it before the media did, Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know why "G.V.C." has been arrested?
TWITTY: No, I don't. I don't have any idea, Greta. If it's from involvement to just information, I just have no idea right now.
VAN SUSTEREN: Beth, you scoured that island all last summer and into the fall. Ever come upon his name before or hear anything about him?
TWITTY: No. You know, there's no part of him that we have, you know, heard about or discussed or anything. So you know, it's just a totally new person that, you know, has shown up. So just don't know.
VAN SUSTEREN: I imagine you're immensely curious, to put it lightly.
TWITTY: I really am. I'm really curious, you know, I think what I'm wanting to find out so desperately is, you know, is it information versus involvement, Greta? I think that, for some reason, you know, I just, you know, am anxious to hear, you know, where they're coming from in arresting him.
VAN SUSTEREN: And I suppose you don't want to get your hopes up too high. I mean, this could be, you know, a dead end, as well, I mean, a false lead.
TWITTY: Right. You know, and John warned me, you know, when he spoke with me Saturday night, you know, just to be guardedly optimistic. But I'm just glad that movement is happening in the investigation. I mean, I think we were facing, you know, absolutely nothing. And you know, so this is this is positive. And you know, maybe it will yield something.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you have any information or have you heard anything whether or not he any has connection to Deepak, Satish and Joran?
TWITTY: No, nothing definitively. I think that the word is out that he, you know, he has met them. I'm not so sure as to how much they had, you know, hung around together, not to anywhere the extent, I don't think, that he and Deepak and Satish did. I'm not certain of the connection with Steven Croes, either, Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know if your daughter ever met him before? Have you spoken to any of her friends since he's been arrested and his picture's been up on the screen — whether they recognize him?
TWITTY: You know, I haven't had a chance to speak with them about that. But you know, I think there were some rumors circulating earlier on, maybe in the fall, about Natalee had met someone — a blue-eyed Dutch national — and it's just simply not true. There just was no truth to the rumors that were coming out of Aruba that Natalee had met him.
VAN SUSTEREN: So you don't know if maybe she'd met him earlier in the trip or anything like that. When we talked about meeting a Dutch national, you made the assumption it was Joran and not somebody else?
TWITTY: Right. You know, I think this was coming out of the "Vanity Fair" article, Greta, when they were trying to say that Natalee had somewhat been irresponsible or, you know, when those accusations were coming out. I think and we're way past that, but as far as her meeting him, I just don't think that that was happening there.
VAN SUSTEREN: "G.V.C." goes to court [on Tuesday]. Judge of instruction will make a determination whether to continue his detention. How closely do you follow that, or do you try to sort of set that aside so your hopes don't get built up?
TWITTY: No, I'm going to be really anxiously waiting tomorrow, Greta. I think that's going to be something I want to see. I mean, I'm just anxious to see if they feel that they've, you know, brought enough evidence forward, and the prosecution feels that they can, you know, get the judge of instruction to detain him for an additional eight days. I'm just going to be so anxious to get through tomorrow to see what happens.
VAN SUSTEREN: I realize this is wild speculation, but you know, we all keep thinking about this case, or at least many of us. Do you think that the prosecution thinks he's involved in the disappearance, or that he simply may have heard something later or provided some assistance?
TWITTY: I don't know, and that's what I'm so anxious to find out about, if it's involvement or if it's information. And you know, for some reason, I'm just leaning towards that possibly he has some information that he could share with us about what happened that night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAN SUSTEREN: In a surprise to all, Aruban police arrest a 19 year old in connection with the Natalee Holloway investigation. Natalee's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, is still with us from LA.
Beth, for the last nine months, we've been exploring almost every possible angle in terms of that after she left Carlos and Charlie's with Deepak, Satish and Joran, as to what might have happened. Is there any evidence or any information at all that makes you think that maybe she made it back to the Holiday Inn for at least a short period that morning?
TWITTY: No. Absolutely not, Greta. And when I think of Joran van der Sloot and when I think of Steven Croes and I think of this new suspect and the lies that were coming out early, very early, the moment we arrived on the island, if we find out that these three suspects are acquaintances or know each other — somebody needs to connect the dots. I mean, there certainly is a reason why Steven Croes came forward early on and stated, lied to the authorities that he had seen the two security guards taking Natalee. You know, people don't just do that for no reason, Greta. Somebody needs to connect the dots on those three, if they know each other.
VAN SUSTEREN: The Steven Croes thing is very curious. Now, he is or was a deejay on the Tattoo, which is a large tourist boat, is that right?
TWITTY: Right.
VAN SUSTEREN: And when he was picked up, he apparently went to the police station and he said that he saw Natalee get out of the car, stumble, and saw two black security guards, a bald-faced lie. Everyone admits that's a lie, right?
TWITTY: Right. And I don't even think that the police came to get him. I think he volunteered the information. I mean, he came forward just as a good-hearted Aruban citizen that wanted to give this information. So he just came willingly to lie to the authorities.
VAN SUSTEREN: Was anyone ever able to connect him to any of the three? Were they ever seen together? I mean, obviously, somebody knew somebody. It didn't happen out of the blue. But does anyone have hard evidence that Steve Croes had a relationship with any of them in particular?
TWITTY: No, and that's what's so frustrating, and I think that's what we need to know now. And I think we need to know with this new suspect if he does know Joran, if they have ever been together, if they are acquaintances, and the same with Steven Croes. There just has to be some connection between these individuals, if they do know each other.
VAN SUSTEREN: Natalee's room at the Holiday Inn was a first floor room, right?
TWITTY: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: Was there an ever any intrusion or bizarre attempt to get in that door by anybody during the time that she was in — not even just that night — but the time she was in Aruba?
TWITTY: Not that I'm aware of, Greta. No, nothing that I'm aware of.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you ever hear of anything? I mean, I'm trying to sort of piece together my recollection, whether you know, thought I heard that maybe there'd been some effort by somebody earlier in the week.
TWITTY: You know, I don't know that. I really never heard anything definitively, if that was happening or not.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you ever vaguely? I mean, I'm just trying to sort of pick your brain, at this point — hear it vaguely?
TWITTY: No. No, I haven't, Greta. I have not.
VAN SUSTEREN: I mean, that's almost the most difficult thing about this case, Beth, is trying to piece together what's fact, what we know, what we don't, because you know, we've covered so many miles on this and it's been so long with no real answers.
TWITTY: I'll be anxious to find out what this new suspect's father has a responsibility of on the island. Something that's concerned the family from early on were these, you know, security cameras that were not working at the Holiday Inn, or at least they said they were not working. I hope that there's no connection between, you know, video security cameras that they have at the hotels and the suspect's father. I'm just not certain what his responsibilities are in Aruba.
VAN SUSTEREN: And of course, it raises lots of very interesting questions, since his father does have the security business for the cameras, and we'd certainly like to have more videotape to try to piece this together as to what happened, if there is videotape. Beth, thank you.
TWITTY: Thank you, Greta.
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Did New Holloway Suspect Know Natalee?
Wednesday, April 19, 2006
This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," April 18, 2006. It has been edited for clarity.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: John, there's another eight days that this man is going to be detained, "G.V.C." What do you think about that?
JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, it's encouraging. It means that a judge determined that there was sufficient evidence to support the prosecutor's decision to hold him for another eight days.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you have any idea why "G.V.C." is being detained? We have the public statement, but it doesn't tell us a whole lot.
KELLY: You know what, Greta? I actually do. The problem is — and I know you know that, you know, when I got involved, it's taken months to sort of build that bridge to the prosecutor's office and overcome a lot of obstacles. And she's very diligent now. She's sharing a fair amount of information with me for the family, and I can't discuss a lot of this right now.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Is it fair to say that when you were on the show the other night, you were sort of lukewarm on whether this was a huge step forward or not? And if so, what's the temperature tonight?
KELLY: It's risen a little bit, Greta. That's a good way of putting it.
VAN SUSTEREN: So you think this is more important than you thought earlier?
KELLY: It could be. I'm not saying it definitely is, but it could be significant, and you know, we're still in the wait-and-see mode, though.
VAN SUSTEREN: It's interesting because in the statement issued by the chief prosecutor's office, it talked about detained also in connection not just with Natalee Holloway's disappearance, but illegal narcotics. Had you heard about this before?
KELLY: I had from the prosecutor's office right after this broke. Yes, I had discussed that with Ms. Janssen.
VAN SUSTEREN: Is the illegal narcotics separate and apart, like an unrelated matter, or is it linked to Natalee Holloway? Because illegal narcotics, for all we know, could be from some drug deal seven months ago.
KELLY: Sure, it could. Once again, I can't say, Greta, but as I say, they're all related. He was charged with that when he was first told he was being arrested on Saturday evening.
VAN SUSTEREN: John, what I heard a little bit earlier today from someone I spoke to in Aruba is that the lawyer for "G.V.C." is also the lawyer — it's a woman — who represented Steve Croes, who is the man who came forward with the false alibi to the police which supported lie number one of Deepak, Satish and Joran. Do you know anything about the lawyer representing both Steve Croes and now "G.V.C."?
KELLY: I know that's the situation. It's a woman, and that is the person who represented Croes and would be representing this individual now. And actually, Ms. Janssen, when I talked to her today, she was just getting ready to turn over the dossier to "G.V.C.'s" attorney for review before they did go into court.
VAN SUSTEREN: Now, Steve Croes, John — it was sort of a curious thing. He came forward seemingly out of the blue and said that he witnessed Deepak, Satish and Joran dropping Natalee off at the Holiday Inn and stumbling, and then two security guards coming up. That was a complete lie that he sort of volunteered, went to the police. He was taken into custody. He was then released. Is he free and clear of all of this, or is he still somewhat in the mix?
KELLY: Actually, there's a rather large mix still. I mean, I know Joran's attorneys have been stating that he doesn't know this individual, which I have no reason to doubt. But I've also been told that GVC has involvement with other people that are involved with the three principal suspects. So if you sort of bridge the gap there and look at Croes, you can try to speculate a little bit there as to what's going on.
VAN SUSTEREN: Then it's bizarre that this lawyer would represent both Steve Croes and GVC because at least here in the United States, I think most lawyers would say that there is a potential for conflict of interest and a lawyer shouldn't be representing both.
KELLY: I think that's right. But you know, when you're talking about the first 48 hours, and you know, looking for counsel right way, I think that's what happened. Once she reviews the dossier, she herself may decide — and you know, rightfully so — there is a conflict there and have to advise him to seek other counsel.
VAN SUSTEREN: I mean, things are obviously done differently in Aruba, but you would at least hear — the prosecutor would give everybody the heads-up in court that there's a potential conflict. You wouldn't even get the dossier to the lawyer so another lawyer can be brought in before there's that problem.
KELLY: Well, I don't know if it's the prosecutor's obligation, especially down there. I think it's the obligation of the attorney representing the client to make that determination.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAN SUSTEREN: How are your clients, Beth and Dave Holloway — how are they taking this news?
KELLY: They're on pins and needles, Greta. You know, we try to downplay expectations. We try to be very cautious, to say the least, in how we view any new developments. But on the other hand, you at some point want to feel some encouragement. And you know, they're just in a "wait and see" mode. They hope that this develops into something. They hope for some resolution, and they want to bring Natalee home. And you know, if this is the answer or the start of getting some answers, then that'd be terrific.
VAN SUSTEREN: And it's so regrettable if everyone gets sort of hopped up that finally, there'll be a resolution, if it turns out that this was simply a false lead.
KELLY: Well, you know what, Greta? That's true. And I would hope, at this point, the Aruban authorities have learned their lesson from so many missteps in the past that they'd be acutely aware of the possibility of raised expectations and that they would not take such drastic steps, if they thought it would just be another, you know, deflated balloon at the end. So hopefully, we're onto something, but we've got to be very cautious and we've got to let it develop in the way they want it to.
VAN SUSTEREN: Except I can't fully blame them if this sort of gets hyped up because we in the media are sort of up to our eyeballs in terms of being interested and fascinated. I mean, they actually rather quietly went out and arrested him on Saturday, and they followed the procedure. They're not issuing any, you know — you know, huge statements out there. So if it gets sort of larger than life, this one isn't in the prosecutor's lap, I don't think.
KELLY: No, no, no. In fact, Greta, they did not go out and arrest this individual. They were just questioning him as a witness. And after about six hours of talking to him, they then made the decision to detain him and arrest him, so as a result of just the questioning, and not you know, forethought to go out and arrest him that resulted in this.
So they've been very cautious. Any time I've talked to Ms. Janssen, she's been very cautious in what she's told me, downplayed all expectations, told me to relay that to the family also. Their press release has been no more than a couple sentences. And they're playing it just the way they should. So I can't say anything, you know, bad about the way they've handled it so far.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know if Chief Deputy Dompig, who has resigned from the case — whether or not he know the father of "G.V.C.," the father who runs the security business?
KELLY: I don't have any direct knowledge. I've got to think that, you know, the deputy chief would have been familiar, at least, with the one who is responsible for the safety along the public beaches, the visibility patrol. Just a guess but, you know, I would think they would have had to cross paths at some point.
VAN SUSTEREN: Any information at all or any sort of suspicion that Natalee might have known or might know "G.V.C." even before the night of May 30 or the early morning hours of May 30, when she disappeared?
KELLY: I've got that answer, but I can't give it to you, Greta. I'm sorry.
VAN SUSTEREN: OK.
KELLY: Don't try the guessing game. It's not going to work.
VAN SUSTEREN: No, I'm not trying a guessing game, I'm trying to pry, trying to peel back. But you know, nothing ventured, nothing gained...
KELLY: Absolutely.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... in terms of trying to get facts. You know, it's all about asking questions.
KELLY: Of course it is.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, so eight days "G.V.C." is going to be in custody. I assume he's going to be interrogated, right?
KELLY: He was actually being interrogated during the course of today, before they were bringing him into court.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know the substance of his responses? I know you can't tell us, but do you know the substance of his responses?
KELLY: I've got some general ideas, once again, but no specifics.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know if the prosecutor is encouraged by the responses that she's getting closer to resolving what may have happened to Natalee?
KELLY: I'd describe her as energized.
VAN SUSTEREN: And that's different from how you've typically seen her?
KELLY: You know what? She's been pretty good lately. You know, we've been pushing a lot, and she's felt that, you know, she's getting a little more support now. I think she's been working really hard, Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: Any thought or any information as to whether there's likely to be more arrests in the very near future?
KELLY: That's a possibility.
VAN SUSTEREN: Is that just sort of a visceral gut reaction, or do you — or have you heard something that makes you — that leads to you believe that?
KELLY: It's more than a gut reaction.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So I guess that you've heard something. Any idea about this shirt that was found that apparently forensically was tied to "G.V.C."? Have you learned anything what that forensic tie is?
KELLY: Yes. None.
VAN SUSTEREN: None at all?
KELLY: None.
VAN SUSTEREN: Just his initials?
KELLY: The T-shirt has nothing to do with this arrest or what's going on right now.
VAN SUSTEREN: So what it was on Saturday that brought him in for questioning?
KELLY: All I can tell you is it was a combination of factors.
VAN SUSTEREN: A combination of factors related to the illegal drug that's mentioned in the public statement or something related to Natalee?
KELLY: A little bit of both, actually. And it was brought in, as I said, just from, for lack of a better term, chatter. And they wanted to follow up on things that were being said, and one thing led to another and it resulted in an arrest a little bit after 8 o'clock Saturday night.
VAN SUSTEREN: So the clock now begins to run, eight more days and interrogation. And maybe we'll learn some more information. John, as always, thank you.
KELLY: Sure, Greta. Thanks.
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