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To: xzins
Why is abiogenesis never discussed?

Because how the first life forms originated has no bearing on the validity of evolution.

I've tried explaining it very simply before by presenting five hypothetical scenarios for how life originated:

1) Naturalisitic processes to be determined caused molecular compounds to gradually come togther in a correct configuration for imperfect self-replication.
2) A divine agent of unspecified nature zap-poofed the first life forms into existence.
3) Aliens from another planet and/or dimension seeded the early Earth with life
4) Humans in the future travel back in time and plant the first life forms, making life a causality loop.
5) Some process other than the above four.

I then ask creationists to tell me which of the five choices above must be true for evolution to occur and to justify their answer by explaining how evolution is impossible if life occured by any of the other above listed means. If they can't explain why evolution only works if one of the five choices is correct, if they can't explain why evolution is impossible should one of those above choices is true rather than another, then their claim that evolution must explain life origins is clearly false.
356 posted on 01/26/2006 6:28:33 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Dimensio; P-Marlowe; Buggman

Yes, but in terms of the age of the earth, abiogenesis showing up takes a lot of time, given that the earth is only 4.5 billion years old.

Takes a while for that abiogenesis friendly environment to develop, and then there are all the misses and near misses, and then there's the zot but the zot goes noplace because the zotee doesn't quite cut it in terms of survival.

And on and on.....


391 posted on 01/26/2006 6:57:12 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: Dimensio; xzins; Buggman
Because how the first life forms originated has no bearing on the validity of evolution.

Baloney. You avoid the first step of evolution because you have no natural explanation for it. To even discuss it in the context of evolution opens the door to supernatural explanations and if you invite any discussion beyond a simple naturalistic explanation, then you have to admit that the possibility of a supernatural cause for abiogensis and the evolution of the first life forms would leave upon the door for a supernatural explanation for the development of complex life forms, which you refuse to even consider.

So you drop it from the discussion.

When I took biology in High School we were all told that the lowest forms of life "evolved" from non-living matter. But since the conditions in which such an event occurred have been impossible to duplicate and since there have been significant challenges to that theory, the whole idea of abiogenesis appears to have been silently removed from the curriculum.

401 posted on 01/26/2006 7:06:23 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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