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The first half of the article is a standard summary of the creation/evolution debate. But the last half, posted here, really moves the ball forward in the debate: Hudgins brings out into the open the fears that are driving creationists & the ID movement.

I've been harping on this point in these parts for years. It's good to see a "real" Objectivist writer get the argument into print.

1 posted on 01/26/2006 1:47:12 PM PST by jennyp
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To: jennyp

"Hayek showed how in a free market the complex processes of producing and distributing goods and services to millions of individuals do not require socialist planners."

But it doesn't happen without someone doing something. Same with creation.


2 posted on 01/26/2006 1:49:48 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: jennyp

"Creationists and advocates of intelligent design come to their beliefs in part through honest errors and in part from evasions of facts and close-minded dogmatism."

Funny stuff!


3 posted on 01/26/2006 1:52:11 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: jennyp

Excellent Article.


4 posted on 01/26/2006 1:53:31 PM PST by tpeters
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To: jennyp

one could ask what are Evolutionists afraid of in letting the Theory of ID and or Creation, be exhibited?


5 posted on 01/26/2006 1:53:48 PM PST by jw777
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To: jennyp

LOL....creationist fear? I don't think so. I fear God alone.


6 posted on 01/26/2006 1:53:54 PM PST by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: PatrickHenry; DaveLoneRanger

I think both ping lists would benefit from this one.


7 posted on 01/26/2006 1:54:28 PM PST by jennyp (WHAT I'M READING NOW: your mind)
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To: jennyp

Good post Jenny...


8 posted on 01/26/2006 1:54:33 PM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: jennyp
The complexities of a free market occur precisely because there is intelligence involved! In this case, millions of "intelligences". For the principle to even apply at all, there must be at least two "intelligences" involved.

If you think this outcome requires no intelligence, why don't growing, wealthy economies spring up from schools of fish, or swarms of bees?

The complex, sophisticated results of a vibrant economy are the result of intelligent, voluntary participation in transactions viewed as beneficial by all involved parties.

Score one for intelligent design.

13 posted on 01/26/2006 1:57:47 PM PST by TChris ("Unless you act, you're going to lose your world." - Mark Steyn)
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To: jennyp
Hayek showed how in a free market the complex processes of producing and distributing goods and services to millions of individuals do not require socialist planners. Rather, individuals pursuing their own self-interest in a system governed by a few basic rules—property rights, voluntary exchange by contract—have produced all the vast riches of the Western world.

I don't see how this advances the debate at all. Perhaps someone can explin it to me.

Here's my take on it--any economic system, whether centrally managed, designed and run or not--requires intelligence and conscious desires of the individual to be met. Hence the individuals are acting in conscious selfishness in order to improve one's economic standing.

Evolution (from my understanding) hypothosises that unconscious bits of chemicals can manipulate themselves and their surroundings for selfish reasons. There is no intelligence governing the first stages of evolution, either centrally, or individually.

14 posted on 01/26/2006 1:58:36 PM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: jennyp

I think what really motivates most anti-evolutionists is a fear of having to defend the Bible as a less than perfect book. Thye see a slippery slope where if they admit the world was not created in 7 days, then the commandment against adultery is equally suspect.

I was a Baptist back when they still believed in dinosaurs. The anti-evolution crowd shows what happens when the hard-core fundamentalists take over an institution or movement.

Conservatives should take heed and perpetually examine their own beliefs and credos. (Like me!)

parsy, the vain.


15 posted on 01/26/2006 2:00:03 PM PST by parsifal ("Knock and ye shall receive!" (The Bible, somewhere.))
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To: jennyp

So teach them both.


18 posted on 01/26/2006 2:01:47 PM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: jennyp

This is perhapst the most idiotic evolution piece of I've ever read. The analogy of the market to evolution is so absurd, I can't believe someone would actually publish it before realizing "gee, that's really lame". If this is the best the evolutionists can do, they are really grasping.


20 posted on 01/26/2006 2:03:14 PM PST by GLDNGUN
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To: jennyp

maybe it would be helpful to discuss this in class??


21 posted on 01/26/2006 2:04:21 PM PST by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: jennyp
Third, complexity does not imply “design.” One of Adam Smith’s most powerful insights, developed further by Friedrich Hayek, is that incredible complexity can emerge in society without a designer or planner, through “spontaneous order.” Hayek showed how in a free market the complex processes of producing and distributing goods and services to millions of individuals do not require socialist planners. Rather, individuals pursuing their own self-interest in a system governed by a few basic rules—property rights, voluntary exchange by contract—have produced all the vast riches of the Western world.

Is this really a think piece? What kind of argument can you make for or against creationism of for or against intelligent quoting two people who designed systems of trade and commerce?

Regardless what is written after these quotes the writer is deluded to think that anyone with common sense is going to bit on this kind of premise

Only Loonie Libs talk drag out hollywood starlets to talk about the danger of Alar

This is like getting someone who makes spaghetti strands to give a lecture and demonstrate gene splicing

Years ago I managed an auto parts store and one day this korean called "On the phone he said "Hello my name kim." and he said nothing else so I hung up He called back a minute later and said Hello my name kims mo-bla I need parts and there was another long pause he as for socks and brakie shooz -- this man called himself a master mechanic his experiance as it turned out driving a round a junkyard buggy and cutting off car and truck parts with a cutting torch. In my estimation old Kim was closer to the real thing than this liberal wannabe thunker

NUFF SAID

22 posted on 01/26/2006 2:05:10 PM PST by Rocketman
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To: jennyp
"Evolution: A Communist Plot? Yet another fear causes creationists to reject the findings of science."

That's the whole point, science has not even come close to proving the theory of evolution, so they teach it doctrinally as a big, fat LIE. Darwin himself said that evolution could never be proven unless the linking fossils or the transitional forms could be found. So far neither have been found.

There have been, however, some elaborate hoaxes and imaginary 'discoveries' by the Darwinists in their zeal to shoot down Biblical references to creation and lift Darwin up in its place. So Christians don't really 'fear' evolution, (as the lying title insists), they just love the Truth and loathe satanic lies.

25 posted on 01/26/2006 2:07:00 PM PST by TheCrusader ("The frenzy of the mohammedans has devastated the Churches of God" Pope Urban II ~ 1097A.D.)
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To: jennyp
Edward Hudgins is the Executive Director of The Objectivist Center

He doesn't seem very objective to me. Perhaps a presentation of thoughts in the market place of ideas would be better served with a positive presentation rather than an attempt to demonize others...but hey, that's just me.

26 posted on 01/26/2006 2:08:02 PM PST by highlander_UW (I don't know what my future holds, but I know Who holds my future)
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To: jennyp
>>There is an objective basis for ethics, but it does not reside in the heavens. It arises from our own human nature and its objective requirements.<<

The objective basis for ethics in man is the same one that causes me to avoid some very dark alleyways. The writer's argument for replacing heavenly based ethics with those of man falls very short here.

Muleteam1

29 posted on 01/26/2006 2:09:18 PM PST by Muleteam1 (I can explain it for you but I cannot understand it for you.)
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To: jennyp
Definitely worth a BOOKMARK.
31 posted on 01/26/2006 2:13:58 PM PST by DoctorMichael (The Fourth-Estate is a Fifth-Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: jennyp

Fear drives most men. Only thought can overcome fear.


33 posted on 01/26/2006 2:15:09 PM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: jennyp
>>>>The Scopes “monkey trial” marked the birth of “creationism” ....

Wrong. The Bible marked the birth of creationism.

35 posted on 01/26/2006 2:18:12 PM PST by Reagan Man (Secure our borders;punish employers who hire illegals;stop all welfare to illegals)
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