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To: Buggman
No serious Hindu thinks that images of Shiva, Kali, or Vishnu are the actual "real deal" either. In fact, in modern Hindu theology, they're all just incarnations of the Brahman, or God, when you get right down to it.

That's not a one-for-comparison, since the Hindus believe their false gods have actual powers over the elements. The saints, other than prayer, have no such power, as I mentioned before.

57 posted on 12/27/2005 6:19:50 PM PST by Pyro7480 (Sancte Joseph, terror daemonum, ora pro nobis!)
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To: Pyro7480
Again, this was already addressed and not answered in post #31. Mary is attributed with more power "than all hell together" and the power to command God and with an "all-powerful name" by many devout Catholics.

Furthermore, the Hindu believes that the power of any god eminates from the fact that it is one with/connected to the Brahman. If one merely posits that "Brahman" is just the Hindu name for God (as many, including JPII, have), suddenly they're exempt from the charge of idolatry as well.

Still further, and as I've already pointed out, God was plainly visible as fire on top of Mt. Sinai when Israel tried to make an idol to Him. It stretches all credulity to suggest that they thought that the God in the fire was encapsulated in the golden calf, nor were they giving God's credit to another god, since plainly they invoke the name of YHVH.

He still wasn't pleased. How much less is He pleased when you bow to the statue of a saint?

By His coming and sacrifice in the person of Yeshua HaMashiach, Jesus the Christ, God tore open the veil that separated us from Him and opened the way to approach Him directly. It is by His all-powerful Name that the legions of Hell are turned back, not by Mary's, for it is Yeshua who

became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God has highly exalted Him, and has given Him a name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow (including Miryam's), of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones, and of ones under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Php. 2:8-11)
It is through trusting Yeshua that all graces and forgiveness are obtained, not through Mary. It is God who commands, whether in the person of the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, and Miryam who obeys, not Mary who has authority over Him. It is the Holy Spirit who "also helps our infirmities. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered" (Rom. 8:26). God loves you infinitely more than Mary ever could, and if you are already in the Messiah, your sins covered by His blood, needs no further appeasement.

By attributing all these things that belong to God to Mary, you not only take away His glory to give to another. you dishonor her by making her a kind of pagan goddess. The humblest and among the most righteous of God's servants (which she truly was) would never want that, but like the angel to whom Yochanan twice tried to bow to and worship in the Apocalypse, would say to you, "Behold! Stop! For I am your fellow-servant, and of your brothers the prophets, and of those who keep the sayings of this Book. Do worship to God!" (Rev. 22:9)

Now, if you too are appalled at what some Catholics have attributed to Mary--good, you should be, especially when some of the worst of it is coming from materials with the Catholic Imprimatur and nihil obstat on them. Instead of being mystified or angered that Protestants keep charging the RCC with Mariolotry and refuse to have fellowship with her, go deal with the Catholics who make the charge so valid. Or to put it another way, "First cast the beam out of your own eye, and then you shall see clearly to cast the splinter out of your brother's eye." (Mat. 7:5)

If, on the other hand, you think all these worshipful appelations given to Mary and bowing down to statues of her (need I post the pic again?) are apprpriate, then truly you have left behind all semblence of a Biblical faith in the God who split Israel in twain and sent both halves into exile for the very same sin.

158 posted on 12/28/2005 9:50:27 AM PST by Buggman (L'chaim b'Yeshua HaMashiach!)
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