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To: Buggman
Seriously, think about this before you start throwing around such nonsense labels. Yes, Yeshua the Messiah was fully God. He was also fully Man. However, there's no way you can seriously claim that Mary, a mortal, time-bound creature somehow gave birth to the "Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity" of the Immortal, Eternal, Creator God--the first two, yes, but not the last two. Thus, even using your terminology, we can say plainly that Mary was the mother of Yeshua's Man-nature, but not of His God-nature.

My source. Check Hypostatic Union; Nestorian is the heresy, by the way.

He uses the issue of Divine and human often in his Gospel on the Word.
And this has what to do with the conversation at hand?

Much of what we know of the Trinity was derived from John's Gospel by Christ Himself in His own words. He recognizes in Himself His Divinity and His human Natures. This is played out in constant explanations.

In like manner, Miryam does not call Yeshua her son, but her Lord, and it is she who hastens to do His will, not vice-versa. As soon as you so much as hint otherwise, it is you who is the heretic, not I.

Sorry, friend, I missed the part where Jesus asked all those present to "take this down." Mary has few words in Scripture. How do you know what she called Him during His days on earth? And, since Scripture seems to be your sole Authority, could you indicate where the Canon is listed in the Bible indicating the precise books to be included?

Thanks!

Frank

40 posted on 12/27/2005 4:11:20 PM PST by Frank Sheed ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions." ~GK Chesterton.)
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To: Frank Sheed
Re: My supposed heresy, you might try arguing from a source of authority that I actually recognize, like the Bible. Can you show that anything I've said is Biblically or logically inaccurate?

Further, can you answer my charge that by making Mary the mother of the Messiah's God-nature, you make her a goddess and He no longer Eternal?

If the answer to both questions is wrong, then it is you, not I, who are in a state of heresy.

As for Nestorianism, I do not claim that Yeshua was two persons, but that He had two natures, or essences--which you yourself admit. The human nature, the mortal body, had a point of origin in time and space, that being the womb of Mary. The God nature, which I would generally associate with His Mind (Soul) and Spirit, is Eternal, having neither beginning nor end, and did not come from Mary. Thus, Mary is the mother of the Messiah, the living, visible embodiment of the invisible God, but not the mother of God.

Much of what we know of the Trinity was derived from John's Gospel by Christ Himself in His own words.

My friend, the Trinity is all over the Bible, if you know where to look. Again, what has this to do with the subject of Marian worship?

How do you know what she called Him during His days on earth?

I wasn't referring to His days on the earth. I'm referring to Him in the here and now. And if David His father calls Him "Lord," against all propriety in Biblical thought, then so does Mary.

49 posted on 12/27/2005 5:05:08 PM PST by Buggman (L'chaim b'Yeshua HaMashiach!)
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