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To: caffe
Although , as you know, in the origins debate we typically hear of it as the universal tendency toward disorder or entrophy. There is another aspect of this law. The Second Law says that in a closed system, energy always distributes itself so it is no longer available to do useful work, and this will happen irreversibly.

Hasn't this been answered repeatedly on this thread? The earth/sun energy exchange is not a closed system. Someday the entropic piper will have to be paid, since the entire universe is presumably a closed system, but we are not talking about the entire universe, we are talking about a tiny piece of it, for a very small slice of time, so entropy can run uphill within it, just like eddy currents can briefly travel in the opposite direction from the flow of the river that produces them.

Usable energy is being pumped onto the earth by the sun all the time, which produces highly usable energy gradients that do work to produce highly regular, differentiated effects such as hurricane weather cells, ocean currents, whirlpools, bubbles, snowflakes, crystal lattices, and life.

2,775 posted on 12/27/2005 12:52:01 PM PST by donh
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To: donh

The universe is a closed system.and if you actually believe that somehow the 2nd law does'nt apply to the earth, then why has the law never failed when given application not only to the universe - but to the earth. Yet somehow you claim, that in the area of the naturalist approach to evolution - the 2nd law has no bearing on the theory? I find this absurd. Our sun is winding down and to think this will have no impact on earth as this energy redistributes is also absurd. Atleast you "kinda" admit that "someday the entropic piper will have to be paid."..since "presumably the entire universe is a closed system"? Excuse me, if the 2nd law somehow supported naturalistic evolution, you would not use the word "presumably" nor would you try and give any wiggle room to this unproven splitting of hairs about open or closed systems. You want to carve out some imaginary exception to allow for "entropy running up the hill" and then comparing it to what? eddy currents? How confusing your mind must be when you attempt to juggle such illusions.
The universe is a closed system and the earth is part of that closed system - no exceptions. If you could offer any scientific PROOF where the earth is exempt from the 2nd law, please tell me. Otherwise this is another invented strawman that has no basis in reality. Again, the 2nd law HAS NEVER FAILED when tested -

I believe the Big Bang, the 1st and 2nd law of Therm and Paley's Theory are the best that science has accomplished in terms of creation. I don't need to make excuses for what is obviously true. Independently, they say nothing about the supernatural, but taken together they have unshakable implications. This conclusion is a logical consequence of a collection of explanatory, scientific theories. Its legitimacy could be refuted by falsifying any of these theories. It is actually explanatory, logically self-consistent and testable.


2,789 posted on 12/27/2005 7:09:36 PM PST by caffe (D)
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