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To: Dimensio

Excuse me but this law applies to our universe and since the claim is we humans have evolved, we are obviously subject to the laws of thermodynamics.
If you can name any physicist , not a cosmologist, who has shown thru scientific proof that we are not subject to the these laws, please share. I believe your comments would fall under a unproven hypothetical that fools some people into the belief that evolution is somehow except from these "universal laws"

Here is just a sample of scientists who see great problems with your sides's assertion.

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is just as valid for open systems as it is for closed systems, says John Ross, Harvard University:
"...There are no known violations of the second law of thermodynamics. Ordinarily the second law is stated for isolated systems, but the second law applies equally well to open systems."

[John Ross, letter in Chemical and Engineering News, Vol. 58






Second Law of Thermodynamics - Does this basic law of nature prevent Evolution?











Evolution versus a basic law of nature
Scores of distinguished scientists have carefully examined the most basic laws of nature to see if Evolution is physically possible - given enough time and opportunity. The conclusion of many is that Evolution is simply not feasible. One major problem is the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.


law of science: basic, unchanging principle of nature; a scientifically observed phenomenon which has been subjected to very extensive measurements and experimentation and has repeatedly proved to be invariable throughout the known universe (e.g., the law of gravity, the laws of motion).
thermodynamics: the study of heat power; a branch of physics which studies the efficiency of energy transfer and exchange.1




Decaying buildings. Massive structures may appear to be capable of lasting almost forever, but they will not. The need for ongoing repairs stems, in part, from the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.
The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics describes basic principles familiar in everyday life. It is partially a universal law of decay; the ultimate cause of why everything ultimately falls apart and disintegrates over time. Material things are not eternal. Everything appears to change eventually, and chaos increases. Nothing stays as fresh as the day one buys it; clothing becomes faded, threadbare, and ultimately returns to dust.2 Everything ages and wears out. Even death is a manifestation of this law. The effects of the 2nd Law are all around, touching everything in the universe.


2,215 posted on 12/22/2005 11:17:10 AM PST by caffe
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To: caffe
The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics describes basic principles familiar in everyday life. It is partially a universal law of decay; the ultimate cause of why everything ultimately falls apart and disintegrates over time. Material things are not eternal. Everything appears to change eventually, and chaos increases. Nothing stays as fresh as the day one buys it; clothing becomes faded, threadbare, and ultimately returns to dust.2 Everything ages and wears out. Even death is a manifestation of this law. The effects of the 2nd Law are all around, touching everything in the universe.

And yet day after day, new things are born that are fresher than their parents.

2,216 posted on 12/22/2005 11:19:11 AM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: caffe
One major problem is the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

Do you even know the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics?

That might be a good start in order to see how you're grossly misapplying it.

2,220 posted on 12/22/2005 11:43:54 AM PST by Quark2005 (Divination is NOT science.)
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To: caffe; <1/1,000,000th%

to show that the 2nd law of thermo is violated by ToE, you would need to calculate the entropy of an ecosystem before and after the speciation event. Good Luck! Show your work!


2,297 posted on 12/22/2005 3:25:25 PM PST by Virginia-American
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