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To: All; JeffAtlanta

Sun says: "About 700 scientists from Africa, Europe and the United States attended Saturday's "Darwin and Design" conference to press their contention that evolution cannot fully explain the origins of life or the emergence of highly complex species."

JeffAtlanta says: "You've been told before that every scientist worth his salt should agree to this statement as evolution doesn't even address the origins of life. If a scientist believes that this statement is groundbreaking then you really have to doubt how educated he is.

BTW, 700 is a very tiny number. How many of these are actually biologists rather than just religious computer scientists that one year of biology in high school?"

So, these 700 are your best and your brightest, and the others will follow.

These scientists are your CURIOUS scientists, not stuck in the past. These curious scientists will look at new evidence. (And I'll bet these scientists are not all named Steve. lol)

The 700 are scientists, so obviously have more than one-year of biology in high school. You are being disingenuous.

Just because THIS particular article has 700 doesn't mean that is all there are.

Oh yeah, and here's some more guys that have more than "one-year of biology in high school":

Here is a partial Bibliography consisting only of the Fellows of the International Society for Complexity, Information, and Design (ISCID) http://www.iscid.org/fellows.php found in the ISCID Bibliography... just had to get this in before I left:

Histone Deletion Mutants Challenge the Molecular Clock Hypothesis
by Behe, Michael J
Trends in Biochemical Sciences 15: 374-376 1990

A Response to Critics of Darwin's Black Box
by Behe, Michael J.
Progress in Complexity, Information and Design Volume 1.1.4 March 2002

Natural Language and Natural Selection
by Pinker, Steven; Bloom, Paul
Behavioral and Brain Sciences 13: 707-784 1990

A Statistical Examination of Self-Ordering of Amino Acids in Proteins
by Kok, Randall A.; Taylor, John A.; and Bradley, Walter
Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 18, pp. 135-142 1988

Scientific Revolution and the Grammar of Culture: The Case of Darwin's Origin
by Campbell, John Angus
Quarterly Journal of Speech 72 (4): 351-376 1986

Integrated use of multiple interdependent patterns for biomolecular sequence analysis
by Chiu, D.K.Y. and Lui, T.H.
International Journal of Fuzzy Systems Vol.4, No.3, pp.766-775 September 2002

God, Creation and Mr Davies
by Craig, William Lane
British Journal for the Philosophy of Science 37: 163-175 1986

'What Place, Then, For a Creator?': Hawking on God and Creation
by Craig, William Lane
British Journal for the Philosophy of Science 41: 473-491 1990

Barrow and Tipler on the Anthropic Principle vs. Divine Design
by Craig, William Lane
British Journal for the Philosophy of Science 38: 389-395 1988


Why Natural Selection Can't Design Anything
by Dembski, William A.
Progress in Complexity, Information and Design Volume 1.1.6 March 2002

Becoming a Disciplined Science: Prospects, Pitfalls, and Reality Check for ID
by Dembski, William A.
PCID 1.4.1 December 31 2002

Evolution's Logic of Credulity: An Unfettered Response to Allen Orr
by Dembski, William A.
PCID 1.4.5 December 31 2002

ID as a Theory of Technological Evolution
by Dembski, William A.
ISCID Archive

Random Predicate Logic I: A Probabilistic Approach to Vagueness
by Dembski, William A.
PCID Double Issue, Volumes 1.2 and 1.3, Article 5 October 30 2002

Some Theoretical and Practical Results in Context-Sensitive and Adaptive Parsing
by Jackson,Quinn Tyler
PCID 1.4.8 December 31 2002

A New Look at the Cosmological Argument
by Koons, Robert C
American Philosophical Quarterly 34 (2): 193-211 1997

Are Probabilities Indispensable to the Design Inference?
by Koons, Robert C.
Progress in Complexity, Informaiton and Design Volume 1.1.2 March 2002

The Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe: A New Kind of Reality Theory
by Langan, Christopher
PCID Double Issue, Volumes 1.2 and 1.3, Article 1 October 30 2002

Does the association of spectral absorption bands in sunlight with the spectral response of photoreceptors in plants imply coincidence, adaptation or design?
by Mims, Forrest M.
Progress in Complexity, Information and Design Volume 1.1.8 March 2002

The Role of Theology in Current Evolutionary Reasoning
by Nelson, Paul A
Biology and Philosophy 11: 493-517 1996

Searching for Deep Variation in the Model Systems of Evo-Devo
by Nelson, P. and Wells, J.
Progress in Complexity, Information and Design Volume 1.1.5 March 2002

What Does Evolutionary Computing Say About Intelligent Design?
by Stephan, Karl D.
PCID 1.4.4 December 31 2002

How to Contruct a Falsifiable Theory in Which the Universe Came Into Being Several Thousand Year Ago
by Tipler, Frank J
PSA 2: 873-902 1984

The History and Limits of Genetic Engineering
by Wells, Jonathan
International Journal on the Unity of the Sciences 5: 137-150 1992

Searching for Deep Variation in the Model Systems of Evo-Devo
by Nelson, P. and Wells, J.
Progress in Complexity, Information and Design Volume 1.1.5 March 2002


555 posted on 12/04/2005 11:26:36 AM PST by Sun (Hillary Clinton is pro-ILLEGAL immigration. Don't let her fool you. She has a D- /F immigr. rating.)
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To: Sun
just had to get this in before I left:

Why? Did you not understand the question?

559 posted on 12/04/2005 11:32:33 AM PST by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: Sun
How to Contruct a Falsifiable Theory in Which the Universe Came Into Being Several Thousand Year Ago
by Tipler, Frank J
PSA 2: 873-902 1984

Frank J. Tipler is a professor of mathematical physics at Tulane University, New Orleans, physicist, theologian and cornucopian philosopher.

564 posted on 12/04/2005 11:39:56 AM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Sun
The Role of Theology in Current Evolutionary Reasoning
by Nelson, Paul A
Biology and Philosophy 11: 493-517 1996

From the ISCID biography on Paul A Nelson...

Paul Nelson is a philosopher of biology, specializing in evo-devo and developmental biology. He is also a fellow of the International Society for Complexity, Information and Design. Dr. Nelson received his Ph.D. from the University of Chicago Department of Philosophy.

These are examples of ID's experts in biology?

578 posted on 12/04/2005 12:02:28 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Sun
Natural Language and Natural Selection
by Pinker, Steven; Bloom, Paul
Behavioral and Brain Sciences 13: 707-784 1990

Paul Bloom's bio...

PAUL BLOOM is a professor of psychology at Yale University. He is an internationally recognized expert on language and development, and with Steven Pinker coauthored one of the seminal papers in the field.

He is co-editor of Behavioral and Brain Sciences, one of the major interdisciplinary journals in the field, and has published over seventy chapters and journal articles in psychology, linguistics, philosophy, and neuroscience.

Stephen Pinker's bio...

STEVEN PINKER is the Johnstone Family Professor in the Department of Psychology at Harvard University. Until 2003, he taught in the Department of Brain and Cognitive Sciences at MIT.

FWIW, Pinker is a pretty sharp guy in his field.

587 posted on 12/04/2005 12:22:47 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Sun
Are Probabilities Indispensable to the Design Inference?
by Koons, Robert C.
Progress in Complexity, Informaiton and Design Volume 1.1.2 March 2002

Here is Koons' self bio..

I obtained an academic scholarship which took me to Michigan State University in East Lansing. At first, I majored in economics, and then in humanities, but eventually, as more and more philosophy courses accumulated on my transcript, I accepted the inevitable and concentrated on philosophy.
My interest in religion and theology continued, and in 1979 I won a Marshall Scholarship which took me to Oxford, where I studied philosophy and theology for two years. While at Oxford, my philosophical interests moved more and more in the direction of logic and formal philosophy.
My combined interests in logic and in philosophical theology led me to do my graduate work in philosophy at UCLA. In 1987, I completed my dissertation on logical paradoxes of truth and rationality. That fall, I came to the University of Texas at Austin as an assistant professor.

Note that the common thread in the list that provided? Almost none have any graduate level or even undergraduate degrees in biology. The thing they do seem to have though is an strong interest in religion.

Why aren't any lead scientists for pharmaceutical firms signing on to this list? Why aren't scientists that are actually working with infectious diseases signing on to this list?


588 posted on 12/04/2005 12:36:00 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Sun
Does the association of spectral absorption bands in sunlight with the spectral response of photoreceptors in plants imply coincidence, adaptation or design?
by Mims, Forrest M.
Progress in Complexity, Information and Design Volume 1.1.8 March 2002

Forrest Mims, while a prolific writer for Radio Shack, is an amateur scientist.

591 posted on 12/04/2005 12:43:31 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Sun
The Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe: A New Kind of Reality Theory
by Langan, Christopher
PCID Double Issue, Volumes 1.2 and 1.3, Article 1 October 30 2002

Langan's bio...

Raised to value brawn as highly as brains, Christopher worked at various times as a cowboy, firefighter and construction worker, and for the past 20+ years, as a bar bouncer in assorted nightclubs across the East End of Long Island. Without benefit of formal higher education, he has engaged for over two decades in research on mathematics, physics, cosmology and the cognitive sciences.

592 posted on 12/04/2005 12:48:00 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Sun
Some Theoretical and Practical Results in Context-Sensitive and Adaptive Parsing
by Jackson,Quinn Tyler
PCID 1.4.8 December 31 2002

Jackson's bio from his homepage...

Quinn is a computer scientist, novelist, and poet.

596 posted on 12/04/2005 12:55:24 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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