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Intelligent Design Might Be Meeting Its Maker
The New York Times ^ | December 4, 2005 | LAURIE GOODSTEIN

Posted on 12/03/2005 5:28:45 PM PST by Right Wing Professor

TO read the headlines, intelligent design as a challenge to evolution seems to be building momentum.

...

Behind the headlines, however, intelligent design as a field of inquiry is failing to gain the traction its supporters had hoped for. It has gained little support among the academics who should have been its natural allies. And if the intelligent design proponents lose the case in Dover, there could be serious consequences for the movement's credibility.

On college campuses, the movement's theorists are academic pariahs, publicly denounced by their own colleagues. Design proponents have published few papers in peer-reviewed scientific journals.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evochat; intelligentdesign
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To: Senator Bedfellow
I suspect a lot of posters know too, having googled it, but oddly, nobody seems to want to touch it.

Whoa. I never saw those quotes before.

621 posted on 12/04/2005 1:26:14 PM PST by jennyp (WHAT I'M READING NOW: Art of Unix Programming by Raymond)
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To: Free2BeMe
There are specific locations where the viral genetic material is inserted.

Yes. Many, many specific locations To expect all species that carry this ERV to have inserted the retrovirus in the same place beggars belief.

622 posted on 12/04/2005 1:30:30 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: Dimensio

I'm not quite satisfied with the answer to my question.

How can we tell the difference between right and wrong?


623 posted on 12/04/2005 1:32:29 PM PST by Liberty Wins (Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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To: jennyp

There are many, many more, but those ones are less obvious about the identity of the author :)


624 posted on 12/04/2005 1:35:07 PM PST by Senator Bedfellow (Sneering condescension.)
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To: Gumlegs; RussP
All science is "purely naturalist." Is it all, therefore "the intellectual lynch pin of communism"?

Well Marxists delare communism to be scientific.

Curious how the most extreme opponents can agree. Biblical Literalists hold a single error of fact in the Bible will invalidate everything within. Who agrees with them? Militant atheists.

625 posted on 12/04/2005 1:37:06 PM PST by Oztrich Boy ( the Wedge Document ... offers a message of hope for Muslims - Mustafa Akyol)
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To: Liberty Wins
How can we tell the difference between right and wrong?

Evolution is irrelevant to that question. That's like asking that if germ theory is valid then how do we tell the difference between right and wrong.

In any event your question is fallacious - the consequences of a discovery have no bearing on it's validity.

626 posted on 12/04/2005 1:38:01 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Liberty Wins
How can we tell the difference between right and wrong?

You use your judgment, and follow the values inculcated into you by your parents and the rest of the society that you grow up in. We are descended from a long line of people who managed to co-operate with each other sufficiently well to form societies that out-competed the less co-operative societies. There is every reason to suppose that such co-operation is at least partly genetic. Most "right" and "wrong" issues are to do with co-operation.

627 posted on 12/04/2005 1:38:40 PM PST by Thatcherite (F--ked in the afterlife, bullying feminized androgenous automaton euro-weenie blackguard)
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To: Liberty Wins
How can we tell the difference between right and wrong?

If rejection of the theory of evolution is what keeps you from being a serial killer, then please continue to reject it. Some of us are not quite so close to the edge of maniacal conduct.

628 posted on 12/04/2005 1:38:47 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, common scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: Dimensio
"Some of us are not quite so close to the edge of maniacal conduct."

My question was not based on sympathy for the criminal or any suggestion that he should be allowed to rob and rape. What I hoped to elicit from you was some recognition that evolution could be used by those with their own selfish agenda, from the lowly criminal to Hitler himself. What better way to justify their crimes (in their own minds)?

629 posted on 12/04/2005 1:41:00 PM PST by Liberty Wins (Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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To: Dimensio

How can we tell the difference between right and wrong?

The strong surviving and the weak not surviving is the very basis of Darwin's theory, is it not? Einstein was a weak little old man, and criminals, who are strong, would have had no appreciation for his finer points. You might say Einstein has to survive for the sake of our civilization, or our species, but how could you convince the criminal of that? Is he really interested in "cooperation?"


630 posted on 12/04/2005 1:41:56 PM PST by Liberty Wins (Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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To: Liberty Wins
My question was not based on sympathy for the criminal or any suggestion that he should be allowed to rob and rape. What I hoped to elicit from you was some recognition that evolution could be used by those with their own selfish agenda, from the lowly criminal to Hitler himself. What better way to justify their crimes (in their own minds)?

And what has that got to do with whether evolution is true or false? In the past some people have justified appalling acts by using the Bible. Does that falsify Christianity?

631 posted on 12/04/2005 1:42:39 PM PST by Thatcherite (F--ked in the afterlife, bullying feminized androgenous automaton euro-weenie blackguard)
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To: Gumlegs; Agdistis
For Pascal's wager (and that's essentially what you were stating), to make any sense, there has to be one, and only one set of possibilities: a Christian God or no God

Actually, for Pascal, it was a Christian God in communion with the Bishop of Rome.

632 posted on 12/04/2005 1:43:07 PM PST by Oztrich Boy ( the Wedge Document ... offers a message of hope for Muslims - Mustafa Akyol)
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To: PatrickHenry

Sorry, Patrick, my reply to you was addressed mistakenly to Dimensio. Why do you accuse people who debate with you of being "maniacal?"


633 posted on 12/04/2005 1:43:33 PM PST by Liberty Wins (Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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To: Liberty Wins
What I hoped to elicit from you was some recognition that evolution could be used by those with their own selfish agenda

You could make that case about anything - including religion in general and Christianity in particular. Did you see the unattributed religious quotes earlier? Guess who the author is.

634 posted on 12/04/2005 1:43:43 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Liberty Wins
The strong surviving and the weak not surviving is the very basis of Darwin's theory, is it not? Einstein was a weak little old man, and criminals, who are strong, would have had no appreciation for his finer points. You might say Einstein has to survive for the sake of our civilization, or our species, but how could you convince the criminal of that? Is he really interested in "cooperation?"

Societies that enforce cooperation work. Societies that don't enforce cooperation don't work. Collectively we have learned to value the contribution of "weak little old men", and we act (more or less decisively) to restrain those who do not.

635 posted on 12/04/2005 1:45:07 PM PST by Thatcherite (F--ked in the afterlife, bullying feminized androgenous automaton euro-weenie blackguard)
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To: Liberty Wins
The strong surviving and the weak not surviving is the very basis of Darwin's theory, is it not?

No it is not. Bacteria are the most successful form of life the earth has ever seen.

636 posted on 12/04/2005 1:47:59 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Thatcherite
"In the past some people have justified appalling acts by using the Bible."

Drop in the bucket, compared to the enormous benefit the Bible has been to mankind in terms of its ethical content. Evolution's ethical content consists of the idea that the strong MUST survive, and I'm saying that continuing to teach this theory must have its consequences.

637 posted on 12/04/2005 1:50:14 PM PST by Liberty Wins (Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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To: Liberty Wins
Evolution's ethical content consists of the idea that the strong MUST survive

Again that is a comic book version of evolution. It has nothing to do with the actual theory of biological evolution.

638 posted on 12/04/2005 1:52:57 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Liberty Wins

"The strong surviving and the weak not surviving is the very basis of Darwin's theory, is it not?"

No. The best adapted will have a better probability of reproducing is the basis of Darwin's theory. *Strength* and *Weakness* are terms that have no absolute fitness values. The physically strongest often are not the best adapted to a particular environment.

"Einstein was a weak little old man,"

Not when he was young. :) He was also very very smart; that can be an adaptive advantage.


639 posted on 12/04/2005 1:53:27 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: JeffAtlanta

Ideas have consequences.


640 posted on 12/04/2005 1:54:15 PM PST by Liberty Wins (Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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