Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

To: conservative_crusader
First off: okay I'll agree with your analogy...

You Sir, are a gentleman and a scholar, with a degree of open-mindedness that the rest of us can but gawk at in amazement. (For the avoidance of doubt I am not being patronising or sarcastic but admiring; because the acceptance of another's point of view in a forum like this is like a transit of Venus, such a rare event that it merits special attention)

... but that still doesn't mean that believing in God or a god, would merit eternal damnation.

I kind of agree, but partly because the word "Merit" is so loaded with connotations of "deserved". I'd prefer to replace the word "merit" in your sentence with "result in". I contend that if there is even the slightest chance that believing in the creator (worshipping It) could result in the PUNISHMENT then Pascal's wager is bust. It doesn't matter how small the chance is, once multiplied by -infinity it still comes to -infinity.

"I have not indicated that the hypothetical creator is necessarily omnipotent; omnipotence is merely one possibility."

Now, think about this. If the creator created the Universe, even if he weren't "omnipotent," he would appear to be so. As a matter of fact, within his own Creation he would have to be so close to omnipotence, for his not being omnipotent to matter.

I kind of buy what you are saying here too. But I'd say that there is a long distance between what we (poor feeble creatures that we are) would perceive as effective omnipotence in our universe and the perfect ideal of true omnipotence. For example does the "limited" omnipotence (haha, that'd have my old english teacher foaming at the mouth) required to be the Creator automatically imply the level of omniprescence and omniscience that would make Him detect and rebuke the Devil/Cleaner? I don't think so, you may believe otherwise.

989 posted on 12/24/2004 4:02:03 AM PST by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 985 | View Replies ]


To: Thatcherite
"I kind of agree, but partly because the word "Merit" is so loaded with connotations of "deserved". I'd prefer to replace the word "merit" in your sentence with "result in"."

I'm sorry, that's my mistake, I wasn't going for the literal meaning of "merit." "result in" is definitely a better phrase.

"I contend that if there is even the slightest chance that believing in the creator (worshipping It) could result in the PUNISHMENT then Pascal's wager is bust. It doesn't matter how small the chance is, once multiplied by -infinity it still comes to -infinity."

So instead of there being 4 possibilities there are 6. Okay. thats fine. 2 go toward the no God argument. 3 are you go to Hell, and 1 is you go to Heaven. Is that what I'm seeing here? I don't mean to exclude any other possibilities thats just all I see.

"For example does the "limited" omnipotence (haha, that'd have my old english teacher foaming at the mouth) required to be the Creator automatically imply the level of omniprescence and omniscience that would make Him detect and rebuke the Devil/Cleaner?"

The point of omnipotence, is being able to exert power. If this god is so close to omnipotence in his own universe, that it doesn't matter, he could exert the power to make himself omniscient, omnipresent, and whatever else he needs to be within his own creation. So yes, if this Devil/Cleaner existed within the gods realm, he would be easily detectable and destroyable.
998 posted on 12/24/2004 12:23:59 PM PST by conservative_crusader (The voice of truth, tells me a different story. The voice of truth says do not be afraid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 989 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson