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To: Jehu
TOE has no idea where the first cell came from let alone any species. Just endless speculation. I have asked repeatedly from evolutionists for years to give me some sort of mathematical structure behind this "scientific" theory. They do not, because they cannot.

The conjecture that God must have intervened to originate life in the first place would not damage or invalidate the ToE in the least if it were shown to be true. In fact the belief that God started the process and then let evolution take over is quite a common one. Did you not know that?

As such you are practicing a faith, or religion. Therefor you are on MY territory and have to fight by MY rules. I have no problem with real science. Nobody has a problem with chemical formula's, Laws of Thermodynamics, Quantum Mechanics, Relativity Theory.

My apologies. I had thought that you espoused Young Earth Creationism (which is conflict with numerous areas of science other than the ToE so your statement that nobody is in conflict with the rest of science is incorrect).

However the repeated assertion of creationists that the ToE is a religion does not make it so. Presumably you understand that well over 99% of scientists (presumably the best judges of what constitutes science) the world over in all fields do not agree with your assessment that the ToE somehow has a different scientific status from other theories. In evidence I submit a list of 500 scientists including 2 Nobel Laureates who support the ToE, with the twist that all of them are called Steve (that name was selected as the filter in memory of Steve Gould). This keeps the length of the list down to manageable proportions.

Those things are real science, experiments can be setup in the lab to prove the math, or theory. And such science cares not one bit if you are a Christian, or atheist. But TOE demands you attack the central tenants of Judeo/Christian belief. Just because you do not do it in an obvious way like Islamo-facists, does not make you any less an enemy of my faith. They both have the same goal, (Islamo-facists, and evolutionists) the eradication of Christianity from the earth.

Numerous laboratory experiments and mathematical predictions have confirmed the ToE. Your use of the words "prove the theory" betrays that you don't understand the scientific method. No theory is ever proven.

Science is neutral about religion. You cannot be unaware that numerous Christians and many Judeo/Christian Churches and organisations representing a huge number of Christians support the ToE and therefore do not share your paranoid unsupported assertions that the ToE was invented as an attack on Christianity.

635 posted on 12/14/2004 3:03:58 PM PST by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: Thatcherite
"The conjecture that God must have intervened to originate life in the first place would not damage or invalidate the ToE in the least if it were shown to be true. In fact the belief that God started the process and then let evolution take over is quite a common one. Did you not know that?"

Which goes to my conjecture that TOE is simply a way to give you a weak or distant God. What TOE is seeking to avoid, as well as any other agnostic, or atheistic belief, is in the immediate creative power of God. It is just the scientific mind's reaction to the presence of God in our fallen state. Or what do you think Adam's fig leaf symbolizes?

Maybe God worked by evolution...something I doubt since the only evidence that evolution occurred as given by agnostic scientists (whatever their first names) that I can discern is the continual squawking like maddened parrots: "Evolution is a fact, evolution is a fact." All the red-faced shouting does not make it so, but appears to me as the clenched-fists tantrum of a lot of spoiled brats.

Once again you, or any scientists named "Steve," are unable to give me a fair mathematical description of this "theory," that you would fight to the death to defend, something I find peculiar for "objective" scientists.

And I guess actual evidence does not mean much to evolutionists, but by your own admission, just a majority opinion. Which just reveals that you do not make up your own minds, (rather your minds were already made up, and you went looking for a confirming theory) but are impressed by numbers, and credentials, and need those numbers to buttress your faith.

"Numerous laboratory experiments and mathematical predictions have confirmed the ToE. Your use of the words "prove the theory" betrays that you don't understand the scientific method. No theory is ever proven."

Name them, give me the math. Of course theories are not proven. But at least the evidence ought to confirm that theory to some degree. But the fossil record (the beginnings and first basis of TOE) shows NO evidence of ANY transitory species, when there ought to be millions. Where are they?

Not to mention the complete inability of TOE to account for irreducibly complex structures. Or symbiotic life, or parasites. Or the complex behaviors of animals, some of them with brains far to small to have figured out such behaviors. From whence came all of this?

And remember we are not dealing with just individual species in isolation, we are dealing with interlocking systems, all the way down to certain properties of matter and compounds that if THEY did not first exist, in incredibly exact proportions, no life could exist.

All just happy circumstances in the view of the idiots that rush to agree with each other and continue to publish such fallacies and slaps at God (THE CREATOR) as TOE.
641 posted on 12/15/2004 6:45:14 AM PST by Jehu
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