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To: Reuben Hick
I do know that it becomes anything God haters want it to be. If you want it to be a space-time expansion, an explosion, or a simulation, then it will be that.

"God Haters" translation: People who prefer examining the physical evidence to see if they can understand the universe . People who framed the physical laws that allow engineers to build computers, the internet, jet travel, mobile phones, modern medicines, diagnostic tools but bizarrely these physical laws are wrong in almost every way according to a bronze-age book.

We do know one thing, no matter what the evidence it will never be allowed to be anything like Creation or ID.

That statement is true, because science can never indicate supernatural action as the explanation of a phenomenon. Science is the study of the natural. If supernatural phenomena exist all science can say is that they are not understood. But it is perverse in the extreme to rely on supernatural explanations when natural ones have been found.

Big Bang has never been theory, and doens't even pass itself off well as a hypothesis. It does make for some interesting science fiction. Still you have the problems with Big Bang violating the uncaused cause and the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics (plus a ton of other things). So if you can write off basic laws of physics, why not invent any explanation that defies the obvious?

The uncaused cause argument was only debunked a few hundred years ago. Do try to keep up.

But what a top physicist you are. Big Bang violates loads of physical laws does it? Have you let all the practicing physicists, astronomers, and cosmologists who accept Big Bang (>99% of people studying in those fields) know that they are wrong; and so stupid too, they didn't even notice that it violates the laws of thermodynamics. You should be in line for the next Nobel prize once you publish your peer-reviewed paper that shows where they have all gone wrong.

Alternatively, before you start trashing Big Bang you might want to understand what the theory consists of, and why scientists consider that the physical evidence available to them strongly supports it, and that they don't believe it contradicts physical laws. That is the normal path to knowledge; you try to understand something *before* you argue against it.

502 posted on 12/10/2004 2:01:31 AM PST by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: Thatcherite
"God Haters" translation: People who prefer examining the physical evidence to see if they can understand the universe . People who framed the physical laws that allow engineers to build computers, the internet, jet travel, mobile phones, modern medicines, diagnostic tools but bizarrely these physical laws are wrong in almost every way according to a bronze-age book.

We can add to "God haters", "liars" and "fools". Why? Because there is a list (an abbreviated one posted in this thread before) of Creationist scientists who are considered the Founders of science. Ever heard of Issac Newton? Also, I am still wondering how Big Bangers/Evolutionists or, a better description, "God Haters", have applied their evolutionary world view to create the internet, jet travel or mobile phones. What is so special about a faith system that imagines matter from nothing, life from non-life, order from chaos, and spends countless dollars looking for little green men in space (SETI) that without these things we wouldn't have a cell phone to annoy our fellow motorists with?

Actually, SETI is interesting in that it is contradictory to itself. It is based on the idea that the cosmos is filled with nothing but random noise such when your employer's computer finds patterns or a sequence that is not random then it is given that the order was made by an intelligent being. The irony is that, according to these God haters, all of the order around you absolutely could not come from an intelligent being.

I know that you Christophobes consider hate speech against Christians the final frontier in bigotry and hatred, but it doesn't serve your purposes well since it shows that you have a clear bias and prejudice that ultimately blinds you to the truth - particularly when you make stupid statements like you did above.

The rest of your post proves the fact that you are a religious zealot yourself, taking as a statement of faith that you prefer the ridiculous and the contradictory (ie. water goes up hill, little green men from Mars) than examining the evidence honestly and open mindedly.

For instance, you say that the "Uncaused cause was debunked hundreds of years ago" and then make this gratuitous and unsubstantiated statement seem like truth to you by adding an insult to the end (apparently this passes as "science" nowadays). I can understand your inferiority complex allowing you to talk about things you have absolutely no knowledge of because after all, you can't possibly be special creation, no you are a descendant of a chimmpanzee or a bug. This is why you must insult Creationist and base your entire faith in a system you can't prove - and most importantly provides you absolutely nothing in exchange. When you die, you do what? Rot? Great religion you have there, buddy.

570 posted on 12/11/2004 6:01:54 AM PST by Reuben Hick
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