You just hit the jackpot subject and made TLI's "A" list. I got soooo tired of writing this up a created a standard post for the "gosh our borders are big" crowd that wants to QUIT before anyone is allowed to even try. Perhaps the border, the MEXICAN border (I grow weary of hearing about our "coastlines" the wetbacks are crossing from mexico which has very few subs) but we can DAMN sure stop the 2 - 3 MILLION per year number and get it down to a couple of thousand.
One more time, just for you, and oh by the way, what we are spending funding the emergency room medical costs for the illegal mexicans ALONE will equal the cost of this little construction project.....
It addresses the legal issues as well...
It is total BS that illegal border crossers are committing a misdemeanor. Lets take a look.
Just a thought, what if the IRS began to receive reports regarding the transfer of funds to locations outside of the united States and it became apparent that is is a nationwide trend.... (oops, already happening) therefore invoking conspiracy laws.
Say for example, an individual living in the united States ILLEGALLY had conspired with other individuals living in the united States ILLEGALLY to create a hideout from the investigative branch of ICE. They have rented the hideout under a fake name and all of the conspirators chipped in to pay the rent on the hideout. Then, in order to avoid local law enforcement agents, all of the ILLEGAL aliens live in the hideout, thereby circumventing the reporting regulations for an alien ILLEGALLY living in the u.S. That would be a crime, right?
OK, let's say those same aliens living ILLEGALLY in the u.S. all had jobs and because they are paying very little to support themselves, (they are all living in the hideout, thereby paying 1/5 to 1/10 what the average American pays in rent and lest than 1/20 what the average home owner pays in monthly mortgage payments) they are sending regular sums of money out of the county, money that was earned during the course of ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, i.e. not reporting there illegal status, hiding their address from law authorities, and falsifying federal IRS forms with fake SS numbers. This would all constitute crimes, right? Well, what kind of a crime?
STRUCTURING, IE money laundering......
4.18.1956(a)(1)(B)(ii) Money Laundering-Illegal Structuring,
18 U.S.C. § 1956(a)(1)(B)(ii) See Statute
[Defendant] is charged with violating that portion of the federal money laundering statute that prohibits structuring transactions to avoid reporting requirements. It is against federal law to engage in such conduct. For [defendant] to be convicted of this crime, you must be convinced that the government has proven each of the following things beyond a reasonable doubt:
First, that [defendant] entered into a financial transaction or transactions, on or about the date alleged, with a financial institution engaged in interstate commerce, involving the use of proceeds of unlawful activities, specifically, proceeds of the [insert crime here(illegal alien) ];
Second, that [defendant] knew that these were the proceeds of unlawful activity;
Third, that [defendant] knew that the transaction or transactions were structured or designed in whole or in part so as to avoid transaction reporting requirements under federal law. ------- The defendants are also charged with knowingly conducting and attempting to conduct financial transactions that involved the proceeds of specified unlawful activity, knowing that the transactions were designed in whole or in part to avoid a transaction reporting requirement and while conducting and attempting to conduct such financial transactions, knowing that the property involved in the financial transactions represented the proceeds of some form of unlawful activity, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1956(a)(1)(B)(ii).
The Treasury Department has published a booklet entitled, "Money Laundering: A Banker's Guide to Avoiding Problems," which contains a list of suspicious activities that the Treasury Department says fit the profile of a "money launderer." These activities include: 1) Paying off a delinquent loan all at once; 2) Changing currency from small to large denominations;3) Buying cashier's checks, money orders, or traveler's checks for less than the reporting limit (i.e., under $10,000); 4) Acting nervous while making large transactions with cash or monetary instruments; 5) Opening an account and using it as collateral for a loan; 6) Presenting a transaction that involves a large number of $50 and $100 bills; and 7) Presenting a transaction without counting the cash first. . . .
"Structuring" is defined by the IRS as any effort to avoid reporting cash or other monetary transactions over $10,000 by breaking them down into smaller "related" transactions over any 12-month period (defined by USC 31, Sec. 5322-5324-Money Laundering Control Act of 1986, as amended). A structuring violation carries with it a criminal penalty with a mandatory prison term, heavy fines, and confiscation of structured funds and money "connected" to them. (A civil penalty of a $25,000 fine with confiscation of structured funds also exists.) Monetary instruments included in structuring are cash, cashier's checks, money orders, and traveler's checks.
"Structuring" is now defined as money laundering, and is a criminal offense. You can now go to jail for dealing in cash to protect your financial privacy, if the IRS thinks you're trying to hide or structure your transactions or monetary instruments.
The above is describing a nationwide conspiracy of ILLEGAL ALIENS that are defrauding the government and a guilty of a long list of federal conspiracy crimes. 20% of the ILLEGAL ALIENS have the phone numbers of welfare and social services on them when arrested. That is intent to commit fraud, a FELONY. The rest are crossing the border with the intent of illegally obtaining jobs and will pay no taxes. Additionally they will conspire to maximize the amount of illegally gained tax free cash they can acquire.
Remember, when the crime was committed, or rather, under the definition of conspiracy, the crime began when the illegal alien set foot on u.S. territory with the intention of getting a job "that nobody else wanted." They are FELONS at one step north of the border.
On to the actual costs.......
Let us visualize a real live controlled border. That would require a fairly large construction project to build semi-sunken border stations at one mile intervals from end to end across the southern border with Mexico. By placing them at one mile intervals no point on the border is more than 30 seconds from a border station. By sinking them into the ground, one level is completely protected against almost all man-portable weapons and the second level (ground level) can be bermed on three sides except for the horizontal observation and firing ports along the east, south and west sides. the north side would extend out to include a 3 sided, covered bay where the interceptors will sit at the ready.
Each such station will be staffed by five three man teams. As this is a closed border plan, there is no need for more than three per station. Allowing 5 shifts per station, the three normally needed for 24 hour staffing at 8 hour shifts, plus two ?weekend? shifts that could rotate out with a weekday shift, giving the week day workers opportunity for time off, vacation, backup for sick days, etc.
Then there is the eternal question, how much?
Ahhhhhhhh, there is the beauty. ZERO. This will not add a single dime to the budget. WHY? The money is currently being pi$$ed away for nothing and where it is going will only get worse. Allow me to rub salt here . .
""When approving the Medi care bill last month, Congress allocated $1 billion to help border hospitals cover those costs. President Bush is expected to sign the bill Monday.""
Which he did. So the money is there, it is just being spent in a reactionary mode. In a proactive mode most of the money will only be spent only in the first year, after that the cost would drop dramatically.
OK, lets do the numbers.
1330 miles from Atlantic to Pacific ='s 1330 stations.
1 station initial construction 165,000
1 electronics and weapons 40,000
3 trucks @ 40,000 each 120,000
15 staff, 5 shifts at 3 per shift 630,000
utilities (water, electricity) 12,000
Total for one station for the first year (including construction)
$967,000
Total for the 1330 stations required
$1,288,044,000
and that is including construction cost.
After the initial construction,
Back out 90% of 165,000 to = 16,500, or annual maintaining
apply the same 10% maintaining to the other front end expenses
and the total annual bill is . . . $870,352,000
Case Closed.
The only reason the border is NOT closed is the fed WANTS the criminal invaders here.
the only question is . . . WHY?
*************
Well well, let us review the facts.
1. All the illegals KNOW what they are doing is against u.S. law. It is illegal for them to be here.
2. The border can be closed for .10 cents on the dollar of what it costs PER YEAR, that would be 22 Billion, due to their presence. It would cost less than 2 Billion to close it.
They are in fact criminals and were felons by their own admission the moment they set foot on u.S. territory. What is government is thinking? By allowing this to go on in the face of such universal opposition of the wishes of the Americans will be political genocide if just one of the annual two million criminal border crossers are involved in a major terrorist event. That is not pubies or dems, just politicians and gubbermnt in general.
So . . . how do we sum this up?
Over 2 in 10 ILLEGALS apprehended while crossing our borders have the phone numbers and addresses of social service agencies in their possession when apprehended.
Last I heard that is premeditation. Also known as intent to fraud. They KNOW they are illegal and not elegible. They crossed the United States International border to commit fraud. That is a Federal Felony.
So much for poor honest hardworking " just want the work Americans will not do " BS.
This also negates the "they are only tresspassing and can not be detained by a land owner or American citizen." They are committing a felony and a felony in progress can very much be subject to citizen arrest.
NO reason to not close the mexican border.
MANY reasons to close the border NOW.
Does this current government really believe all Americans are so stupid as to let this go on?
Perhaps we will all go back to our AC and Buds if they put a few troops on the border to let the media snap a few thousand pics? This will portray the government as “doing something” and “gittn tuff.”
Perhaps the fed.gov should bash itself in the head with a brick, too.
Right now, the current policy of the federal government is resulting in massive increases in crime, as much as 800% in some areas. The fed has made it clear they do not intend to do anything to enforce CURRENT LAW beyond a few token sweeps that net about than .000001% of the criminal illegal aliens.
We better pray there are many more Americans that continue to be willing to step up and with their actions, say the bs stops HERE, and NOW.
The entire border is flat? Oh, the things you learn on Free Republic!
By sinking them into the ground, one level is completely protected against almost all man-portable weapons and the second level (ground level) can be bermed on three sides except for the horizontal observation and firing ports along the east, south and west sides.
You've also made it impossible for the border guards to actually see anything more than a couple hundred yards away along most of the border.
the north side would extend out to include a 3 sided, covered bay where the interceptors will sit at the ready.
...and a smart opponent will simply wait for the interceptors to come out, then ambush those.
OK, lets do the numbers.
OK, let's do those numbers. Your numbers are pure Grade-A bulls**t.
1330 miles from Atlantic to Pacific ='s 1330 stations.
First wrong assumption: the actual length of the US-Mexican border is 2,100 miles. (It is not a straight line. I know, that is a complete shock to you.)
1 station initial construction 165,000
Unfortunately, to keep the costs this low, you'd have to use illegal alien labor. The Davis-Bacon Act requires the use of the "prevailing wage," which the courts have determined to be "whatever the union says it is." Announce this big a program, your construction costs will be more along the lines of $2M apiece.
1 electronics and weapons 40,000
$40K would barely cover the per diem for the electronics installation team. Try again.
3 trucks @ 40,000 each 120,000
Trucks are useless without infrastructure to supply fuel...which you have neglected to include in your cost analysis.
15 staff, 5 shifts at 3 per shift 630,000
630,000/15 = 21,000/year. That is a ridiculously low rate for goobermint labor.
Federal labor cost estimates put a lower-grade GS emloyee's loaded rate at $100,000 per year.
utilities (water, electricity) 12,000
Does not include the cost of amortizing the new electrical and water infrastructure required.
Kindly note that water rights are property. Taking water that is already allocated for beneficial use would require a 5th Amendment taking. Since water rights also have a FUTURE value, you're talking about a very large sack of coin that is completely unaccounted for in your cost model.
Total for one station for the first year (including construction)
$967,000
Go back and redo the figures. Yours are BS.
Total for the 1330 stations required
2,100 stations at one per mile.
$1,288,044,000
and that is including construction cost.
Using illegal alien labor, of course...
After the initial construction,
Back out 90% of 165,000 to = 16,500, or annual maintaining
Again, you're using illegal alien labor rates.
apply the same 10% maintaining to the other front end expenses
and the total annual bill is . . . $870,352,000
Case Closed.
Case Re-Opened. There's only one problem with your idea: it does not work. Illegal aliens penentrate your border security line with annoying regularity. You've reduced the number of illegals crossing via land, but not by very much. The Commandant of the Coast Guard just called--he tells you that illegal aliens are being smuggled into California, Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi by boat in large numbers. The Coast Guard couldn't keep up with the minimal amounts of maritime immigrant smuggling before your plan went into effect--they're completely overwhelmed now.
Oh, and your effort to attack this via "money laundering" statutes? Well, those statutes allow for seizures. The IRS grades its agents on how much cash they seize. And the illegals don't have enough money to be worth seizing. Instead, the IRS is using that big manpower plus-up to go after the "underground economy," and they're mostly targeting American citizens. They get a few high-profile illegal immigrants--but that's just for show.
Meanwhile, you just got a phone call from the Canadians. That list of suspected terrorists you sent them? Well, about 20% were in Canada, drawing generous welfare benefits. Key word: were. When the Canadian authorities tried to round them up, the terrorists were gone. Presumably, they crossed the (completely unguarded) US-Canadian border. Lotsa luck, dude.
Bottom line: your proposal costs more than you wish, accomplishes less than you wish, does not accomplish the task by which you sold it to Congress, has lots of unintended negative consequences, and now you're going to go back with another hare-brained, unworkable idea and ask for lots of public money.
In short, you're a liberal Democrat...
Bob Dole wonders what Bob Dole has to say about this. Bob Dole would say that your figures have already been rebutted and/or proven wrong in many posts in this thread already. And, only Bob Dole can talk about Bob Dole in the first person and get away with it.