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To: capitan_refugio
Lincoln responded to armed insurrection.

No he didn't, he instigated a civil war. I think he instigated secession, too, but that's just my opinion.

Those involved in the insurrection were criminals.

No way. They were the People, resuming their powers and asserting both their political and their natural rights.

It wasn't a "blockade" under internationally recognized terms of the time.

Yes it was. He called it a "blockade", and he imposed it as if it were a blockade, and he administered the blockade as a blockade in all respects for the duration of the war.

There was no way that he could constitutionally do what he did, if his assertion were correct that the Southern States had not left the Union. He was forbidden by the Constitution from closing some ports in some States, and directing commerce to ports in other States -- and yet that is exactly what he did. Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus. However you look at it, Lincoln broke the law and ruled as a despot, while levying war on the Southern States and their People, some of them even before they'd left the Union.

The rebellious states were not foreign countries and were never diplomatically recognized as such.

After their alienage through secession, they were. Diplomatic recognition was not germane, as its extension was a matter of sovereign discretion in other countries. The United States didn't recognize the Soviet Union until 1933.

Wrong. Lincoln worked with the Congress when it was in session.

No, right. As nolu chan has carefully documented -- you really ought to pay attention sometime and quit blowing off his posts just because they annoy you -- Lincoln waited until Congress adjourned sine die, and then got busier than a one-armed paperhanger, instigating his war on the South.

Wrong. The President properly ignored Taney and the Merryman as invalid and irrelevant.

Okay, this is open defiance and arrant BS. Lincoln did not "properly ignore" Taney -- he issued a warrant for Taney's arrest, and we're going to have it out right now on that point. Concede! He did issue that warrant, and he did interfere with the Courts when it suited him, and he did interfere precisely in cases brought on the same grounds as Ex Parte Merryman, because he was battling the court system across the board on his arrogation of the power to hold people without trial.

And far from being "irrelevant", Ex Parte Merryman applied directly to Lincoln's unconstitutional usurpation of a Congressional power in suspending habeas corpus, and that case has application to this very day, as the Courts prepare to consider cases under the Patriot Act.

What an absolutely arrogant, baldfaced, and annoying BS'er you are! You are dead wrong, but you won't admit it -- you just do a Wlat and come back after you've been totally shelled on a subject, and start posting the same garbage de novo, as if nobody had ever posted a document to you. Stop it!

602 posted on 09/02/2004 1:06:16 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus; 4ConservativeJustices; nolu chan

Courtesy ping....


603 posted on 09/02/2004 1:08:17 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus
Excellent post. Notice that the recurring theme found in virtually all of capitan's posts is a semantical dispute. Rather than addressing ANYTHING factual, he'd rather debate over when a blockade is not a blockade, over whether a war is a war or not, over whether Merryman is "irrelevant" by label and thus deserving of dismissal, and, on all counts, basically what the meaning of "is" is. Jaffa is equally guilty of this offense - he commonly turns to word games to avoid unpleasant facts. The only people he ever convinces are true believers and himself, but that doesn't stop him. As long as he can twist, turn, and contort wordings in a way that justify Saint Abe everything will be a-okay.

If a pesky federal judge comes along and gets in the way, just throw him under house arrest and gratuitously smear him as a "confederate sympathizer," hoping that the incident will be forgotten. It's the Cult of Harry's favorite trick.

606 posted on 09/02/2004 2:48:16 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist ("Can Lincoln expect to subjugate a people thus resolved? No!" - Sam Houston, 3/1863)
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To: lentulusgracchus
Diplomatic recognition was not germane, as its extension was a matter of sovereign discretion in other countries.

As an interesting aside, the Confederacy did attain a small degree of diplomatic recognition.

One country recognized them outright - the German principality of Saxe-Coburg Gotha.

Several quasi-nations, the 5 civilized Indian tribes (which have historically and constitutionally enjoyed a degree of protectorate sovereignty unto themselves, which have historically made determinations and declarations of war unto themselves under the laws of nations, and which conduct their affairs by treaty requiring senate ratification), recognized and openly supported the confederacy.

Substantial evidence also suggests that an unusually structured degree of recognition was obtained with the Vatican, not only in the famous address to Davis by the pope but also in diplomatic correspondence between the two in which vatican authorities referred to the CSA as a nation. The Catholic Bishop of Charleston was also authorized by Davis to conduct diplomacy on behalf of the confederacy to the vatican.

607 posted on 09/02/2004 2:54:46 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist ("Can Lincoln expect to subjugate a people thus resolved? No!" - Sam Houston, 3/1863)
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To: lentulusgracchus; capitan_refugio
Those involved in the insurrection were criminals.

Typically, the word criminals is reserved for those convicted of a crime.

608 posted on 09/02/2004 7:05:22 PM PDT by Gianni
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To: lentulusgracchus
"No he didn't, he instigated a civil war. I think he instigated secession, too, but that's just my opinion."

If, by being properly elected, Lincoln instigated several states to secede, I will say you are correct. South Carolina apparently did not even wait to participate in the Electoral College vote - "the real election."

As I quoted from Justice Grier in the Prize Cases majority opinion, in the previous post, Lincoln not only had the Constitutional power and authority, but also the obligation to respond to Southern aggression, insurrection, and rebellion.

"No way. They were the People, resuming their powers and asserting both their political and their natural rights."

If that were so, then they should have cast it as a war of independence. Instead, they purported to invoke an unwritten, unlegislated procedure to "legally" leave the Union.

"[Lincoln] called it a "blockade", and he imposed it as if it were a blockade, and he administered the blockade as a blockade in all respects for the duration of the war.

I'm not one to parse terms. Grier termed it as a "blockade de facto" but cast the question in this manner (and answered in the affirmative):

"Had the President a right to institute a blockade of ports in possession of persons in armed rebellion against the Government, on the principles of international law, as known and acknowledged among civilized States?"

A blockade of a foreign port constitutes an act of war. When Lincoln shut off shipping in certain ports, in certain insurrectionist southern states, he was not dealing with a "foreign" country.

"However you look at it, Lincoln broke the law and ruled as a despot, while levying war on the Southern States and their People, some of them even before they'd left the Union."

I look at it the same way the Court looked at it, and similarly conclude that the President was fully within his rights.

Nor does a state's purported status in the Union make any difference. Lincoln was obligated to fight insurrection everywhere within the Union. This included places like Virginia, between the time the legislature voted secession, and the people voted in the referendum.

"As nolu chan has carefully documented -- you really ought to pay attention sometime and quit blowing off his posts just because they annoy you -- Lincoln waited until Congress adjourned sine die, and then got busier than a one-armed paperhanger, instigating his war on the South."

(1) I only blow them off when they have been posted for the third or fourth time - then they fall into the category of "hairballs."

(2) When Congress ends a term and adjourns sine die, they provide for the first meeting date of the next congress. In 1861, the new Senate went immediately into session, as was the custom, to confirm nominations. It was abundantly clear, in late February and early March, that the nation was in dire straits, as several states had purported to secede, and several other were contemplating similar actions. The House was under no obligation to wait until December 1861 to meet. There has never been an entirely adequate explanation as to why they chose not to immediately go into session on March 4, as did the Senate (there are several competing theories, but that is fodder for another thread).

The House chose not to be there. Lincoln, by proclamation recalled the entire Congress in mid-April 1861, to assemble on July 4. Some poster read "evil intent" into that. I don't see the evidence. I do see the speculation.

I read the "feature article" for this thread, and recall the earlier threads. Where is the "warrant"? Where is the record of the "warrant"? The "Taney arrest warrant" is properly classified as Civil War apocrypha.

Taney was spoiling for a fight with the Lincoln administration. In Merryman he saw an opportunity. Taney made two rulings. One of the rulings is factually in error. Taney cast Merryman as a civilian, and therefore not subject to military arrest. Taney wrote:

(2) A military officer has no right to arrest a person not subject to the rules and article of war ..."

If fact, John Merryman was an officer of a militia cavalry company, involved in armed insurrection by way of burning bridges and tearing up rails, for the purpose of impeding the movement of Union troops into Washington, D.C. Merryman was very much subject to the rules and articles of war. Taney's rationalization ... or should I say "lie"? ... gave him the opportunity to grind his axe on the other point. If Taney had conceded that "his neighbor, and a personal friend" was part of an insurrectionist force, by implication from his own words, he would not then have had the opportunity to rule on the habeas issue (or at least, he would have had to find another case). The Court has along tradition of not meddling into military matters, especially in times of war. It may be that Taney also utilized "selective blindness" to deny insurrection existed.

Modern day scholars, such as Farber and Jaffa, are not the only people who contend that Lincoln was within his constitutional rights to ignore Taney. At the time, the leading Constitutional scholar in the Congress and a leading academic scholar both sided with Lincoln.

Former Att. Gen. and soon Senator Reverdy Johnson published "Power of the President to Suspend the Habeas Corpus Writ." Professor Horace Binney wrote "the Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus under the Constitution." There was also Atty. Gen. Bates "position paper" delivered to congress on July 5, 1861. And finally, Lincoln himself was a well-versed lawyer and understood the principles of constitutional law.

If Taney was out of line and out of bounds, then the other cases which may or may not have parroted Merryman (I have seen scant documentation posted), seem not to make much difference. Lincoln himself presented Congress with his rationale and Congress chose not to condemn his actions.

615 posted on 09/03/2004 1:32:30 AM PDT by capitan_refugio
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To: lentulusgracchus; capitan_refugio
[cr] Wrong. Lincoln worked with the Congress when it was in session.

[4CJ] No, right. As nolu chan has carefully documented -- you really ought to pay attention sometime and quit blowing off his posts just because they annoy you -- Lincoln waited until Congress adjourned sine die, and then got busier than a one-armed paperhanger, instigating his war on the South.

The order to break the Armistice at Fort Pickens actually issued from the Lincoln administration on March 12, 1861. On March 28, 1861, the Senate Journal shows "Mr. Powell, from the committee appointed to wait on the President of the United States and inform him that, unless he may have any further communication to make, the Senate is now ready to close the present session by an adjournment, reported that they had performed the duty assigned them, and that the President replied that he had no further communication to make." It is the orders issued on March 12, 1861 that were subsequently delivered and carried out beginning April 11, 1861.

These orders of March 12, 1861, to Army Captain Vogdes were held until after the Senate adjourned on March 28, 1861 and then delivered by USS Crusader to Captain Vogdes, off Pensacola, on March 31, 1861. Capt. Vogdes delivered them to Navy Captain Adams on April 1, 1861. Capt. Adams refused to comply with the orders and requested Secretary of the Navy Gideon Welles advise him how to proceed. Secretary Welles advised him to carry out the orders. These orders were then carried out, beginning on April 11, 1861 -- before the fireworks at Fort Sumter.

LINK

BREAKING THE ARMISTICE -- MARCH 12, 1861
RECORDS OF REBELLION,

VOLUME 1, CHAPTER 4

OPERATIONS IN FLORIDA.
[CHAP. IV.

HEADQUARTERS OF THE ARMY,
Washington, March 12, 1861.

Captain VOGDES, U. S. Army,
On board U. S. sloop-of-war Brooklyn, lying off Port Pickens:

SIR: At the first favorable moment you will land with your company, re-enforce Fort Pickens, and hold the same till further orders. Report frequently, if opportunities present themselves, on the condition of the fort and the circumstances around you.

I write by command of Lieutenant-General Scott.

I am, sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
E. D. TOWNSEND,
Assistant Adjutant-General.

To: Captain I. Vogdes,
First Artiller, U. S. Army
on board Ship of War Brooklyn
off Fort Pickens,
Pensacola, Fla."

Delivery of these orders was delayed until after the Senate adjourned on March 28, 1861. They were delivered via USS Crusader to Capt. Vogdes, off Pensacola, on March 31, 1861, and by Capt. Vogdes to Navy Capt. Adams on April 1, 1861. Capt. Adams refused to comply with the orders, see below.


THE SENATE ADJOURNED
March 28, 1861

LINK

This the end of the Senate Journal for March 28, 1861:

Mr. Powell, from the committee appointed to wait on the President of the United States and inform him that, unless he may have any further communication to make, the Senate is now ready to close the present session by an adjournment, reported that they had performed the duty assigned them, and that the President replied that he had no further communication to make.

Mr. Foster submitted the following resolution:

Resolved, That the Senate will adjourn without day at four o'clock this afternoon.

The Senate proceeded by unanimous consent to consider the said resolution; and, having been amended on the motion of Mr. Hale, it was agreed to as follows:

Resolved, That the Senate do now adjourn without day.

Whereupon

The President pro tempore declared the Senate adjourned without day.


[Lincoln special message 4 Jul 61] An order was at once directed to be sent for the landing of the troops from the Steamship Brooklyn, into Fort Pickens. This order could not go by land, but must take the longer, and slower route by sea.

[Lincoln special message 4 Jul 61] To now re-inforce Fort Pickens, before a crisis would be reached at Fort Sumter was impossible

Lincoln lied that a message to Captain Adams could only go by sea. He then stonewalled the Congressional inquiry about Lt. Worden. The Official Records quoted below document that Lt. Worden carried a message to Captain Adams and did so by traveling overland, by train, to Pensacola, where he lied to the Confederate officials to obtain a pass, saying that he carried only a message of a "pacific" nature. Lt. Worden carried the order to break the existing armistice.

First, Lt. Worden saw Lieutenant Slemmer, of Fort Pickens. Then he visited with Capt. Adams. He then left without checking back in with General Bragg. The Confederates soon became aware of the Union violation of the Armistice and Lt. Worden was captured and held as a prisoner of war.

When Congress made inquiries of Lincoln, he invoked Executive Privilege.

Page 440

Page 441

O.R. Series 1, Vol. 1, Part 1, Page 440-1

Message of the President of the United States, in answer to a resolution of the Senate requesting information concerning the quasi armistice alluded to in his message of the 4th instant.

JULY 31, 1861.- Read, ordered to lie on the table and be printed.

To the Senate of the United States:

In answer to the resolution of the Senate of the 19th instant, requesting information concerning the quasi armistice alluded to in my message of the 4th instant, I transmit a report from the Secretary of War.

ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

JULY 30, 1861.

NAVY DEPARTMENT,

July 29, 1861.

The Secretary of the Navy, to whom was referred the resolution of the Senate of the 19th instant, requesting the President of the United States to "communicate to the Senate (if not incompatible with the public interest) the character of the quasi armistice to which he refers in his message of the 4th instant, be reason of which the commander of the frigate Sabine refused to transfer the United States troops into Fort Pickens in obedience to his orders; by whom and when such armistice was entered into; and if any, and what, action has been taken by the Government in view of the disobedience of the order of the President aforesaid," has the honor to report that it is believed the communication of the information called for would not, at this time, comport with the public interest.

Respectfully submitted.

GIDEON WELLES.

The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

[nc - Well, Lincoln couldn't very well deliver to Congress a copy of orders dated March 12, 1861 or Captain Adams message of April 1, 1861 which called the orders he received as being of "old date."]


LINK

EXECUTIVE MANSION, July 30, 1861.

To the SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES:

In answer to the resolution of the Senate of the 23rd instant requesting information concerning the imprisonment of Lieutenant John J. Worden [John L. Worden], of the U. S. Navy, I transmit a report from the Secretary of the Navy.

ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

[Inclosure.]

NAVY DEPARTMENT, July 29, 1861.

The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:

The Secretary of the Navy, to whom was referred the resolution of the Senate of the 23rd instant requesting the President of the United States to inform the Senate "under what circumstances Lieutenant John J. Worden [John L. Worden], of the U. S. Navy, has been imprisoned at Montgomery, Ala., whether he is still in prison, and whether any and if any what measures have been taken by the Government of the United States for his release," has the honor to report that it is believed the communication of the information called for would not at this time comport with the public interest.

Respectfully submitted.

GIDEON WELLES.

[nc - Well, he told Congress the message could not be sent by land, and it was impossible to reinforce Fort Pickens before the events at Fort Sumter. So he stonewalled.]


LINK

USS SUPPLY SHIPS LOG - APRIL 11, 1861

210 -- OPERATIONS IN THE GULF OF MEXICO.

Abstract log of the U. S. sbip Supply, January 9 to June 14, 1861, Commander Henry Walke, commanding.

April 7. -- Came to anchor in the harbor of Pensacola.

April 11. -- At 9 p. m. the Brooklyn got Underway and stood in toward the harbor, and during the night landed the troops and marines on board, to reenforce Fort Pickens.

April 16. -- At 5 p. m. steamer Atlantic arrived with troops and muni- tions of war for Fort Pickens. During the night 300 troops were landed on Santa Rosa Island by the boats of the squadron.


CAPTAIN JOHN LORIMER WORDEN
The Philadelphia Enquirer
Saturday, March 15, 1862

Captain (formerly Lieutenant) John Lorimer WORDEN, the hero of the great naval battle at Hampton Roads, and who commanded the gallant little Monitor in her engagement with the Merrimac, is a native and citizen of New York, from which State he received his appointment to the navy in 1834. His entry, as a midshipman, into the service, bears date the 10th of January in that year, his commission as Lieutenant, the 30th of November, 1846. During this time he has seen nearly sixteen years of sea service. His shore and other duty amounted, at the end of 1860, to nearly seven years. Since his appointment he has been only threeyears unemployed. His total length of service up to the present time exceeds twenty-eight years.

He was last as sea in November, 1860, on board the sloop Savannah, twenty-two guns, on the blockading squadron, and was granted a short leave of absence on his return. After this he was sent as a special messenger to Fort Pickens, with despatches to Captain ADAMS of the Sabine. ADAMS was in command of the fleet which, carrying two companies of artillery, had been sent to Fort Pickens for the purpose of its reinforcement. Leaving Washington with despatches which conveyed orders to that effect, on the 7th of April, Lieutenant WORDEN, journeying by way of Richmond and Montgomery, arrived at Pensacola on the 11th. Fearing an arrest and search, owing to the excited state of the country, he tore up his despatches after committing them to memory. As he anticipated, he was arrested at Montgomery, Alabama, and as no papers were found on his person, he was allowed to pass.

On his arrival at Pensacola he obtained a pass from the Rebel General Bragg permitting him to carry a verbal message from Secretary CAMERON to Captain ADAMS. He went to him and repeated from memory his despatches. The fort was reinforced by Captain VOGDES that night; Lieutenant WORDEN took the cars at 8 P.M., on the 12th, on his return, and on the 13th, when within about five miles of Montgomery, he was arrested by five Rebel army officers, under the pretence of having broken his parole, but the main object was to obtain his despatches to the Government, if he should have had any in his possession. He was sent to Montgomery, where he was kept for some time as a prisoner of war. There was an intense excitement against him, as the Rebel General BRAGG had collected a force of 1000 men and intended to attack Fort Pickens the very night it was reinforced. This he subsequently learned. Lieutenant WORDEN was kept in confinement until the middle of November last, hwne he was exchanged and went to Fortress Monroe where he joined the Minnesota. He was afterward detached from that vessel and appointed to command of the Monitor. His gallant performance at the battle of Hampton Roads is recorded in every heart. Under Providence he saved our navy.



633 posted on 09/03/2004 8:57:04 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: lentulusgracchus; capitan_refugio
[cr] Wrong. Lincoln worked with the Congress when it was in session.

[lg] No, right. As nolu chan has carefully documented -- you really ought to pay attention sometime and quit blowing off his posts just because they annoy you -- Lincoln waited until Congress adjourned sine die, and then got busier than a one-armed paperhanger, instigating his war on the South.

The order to break the Armistice at Fort Pickens actually issued from the Lincoln administration on March 12, 1861. On March 28, 1861, the Senate Journal shows "Mr. Powell, from the committee appointed to wait on the President of the United States and inform him that, unless he may have any further communication to make, the Senate is now ready to close the present session by an adjournment, reported that they had performed the duty assigned them, and that the President replied that he had no further communication to make." It is the orders issued on March 12, 1861 that were subsequently delivered and carried out beginning April 11, 1861.

These orders of March 12, 1861, to Army Captain Vogdes were held until after the Senate adjourned on March 28, 1861 and then delivered by USS Crusader to Captain Vogdes, off Pensacola, on March 31, 1861. Capt. Vogdes delivered them to Navy Captain Adams on April 1, 1861. Capt. Adams refused to comply with the orders and requested Secretary of the Navy Gideon Welles advise him how to proceed. Secretary Welles advised him to carry out the orders. These orders were then carried out, beginning on April 11, 1861 -- before the fireworks at Fort Sumter.

LINK

BREAKING THE ARMISTICE -- MARCH 12, 1861
RECORDS OF REBELLION,

VOLUME 1, CHAPTER 4

OPERATIONS IN FLORIDA.
[CHAP. IV.

HEADQUARTERS OF THE ARMY,
Washington, March 12, 1861.

Captain VOGDES, U. S. Army,
On board U. S. sloop-of-war Brooklyn, lying off Port Pickens:

SIR: At the first favorable moment you will land with your company, re-enforce Fort Pickens, and hold the same till further orders. Report frequently, if opportunities present themselves, on the condition of the fort and the circumstances around you.

I write by command of Lieutenant-General Scott.

I am, sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
E. D. TOWNSEND,
Assistant Adjutant-General.

To: Captain I. Vogdes,
First Artiller, U. S. Army
on board Ship of War Brooklyn
off Fort Pickens,
Pensacola, Fla."

Delivery of these orders was delayed until after the Senate adjourned on March 28, 1861. They were delivered via USS Crusader to Capt. Vogdes, off Pensacola, on March 31, 1861, and by Capt. Vogdes to Navy Capt. Adams on April 1, 1861. Capt. Adams refused to comply with the orders, see below.


THE SENATE ADJOURNED
March 28, 1861

LINK

This the end of the Senate Journal for March 28, 1861:

Mr. Powell, from the committee appointed to wait on the President of the United States and inform him that, unless he may have any further communication to make, the Senate is now ready to close the present session by an adjournment, reported that they had performed the duty assigned them, and that the President replied that he had no further communication to make.

Mr. Foster submitted the following resolution:

Resolved, That the Senate will adjourn without day at four o'clock this afternoon.

The Senate proceeded by unanimous consent to consider the said resolution; and, having been amended on the motion of Mr. Hale, it was agreed to as follows:

Resolved, That the Senate do now adjourn without day.

Whereupon

The President pro tempore declared the Senate adjourned without day.


[Lincoln special message 4 Jul 61] An order was at once directed to be sent for the landing of the troops from the Steamship Brooklyn, into Fort Pickens. This order could not go by land, but must take the longer, and slower route by sea.

[Lincoln special message 4 Jul 61] To now re-inforce Fort Pickens, before a crisis would be reached at Fort Sumter was impossible

Lincoln lied that a message to Captain Adams could only go by sea. He then stonewalled the Congressional inquiry about Lt. Worden. The Official Records quoted below document that Lt. Worden carried a message to Captain Adams and did so by traveling overland, by train, to Pensacola, where he lied to the Confederate officials to obtain a pass, saying that he carried only a message of a "pacific" nature. Lt. Worden carried the order to break the existing armistice.

First, Lt. Worden saw Lieutenant Slemmer, of Fort Pickens. Then he visited with Capt. Adams. He then left without checking back in with General Bragg. The Confederates soon became aware of the Union violation of the Armistice and Lt. Worden was captured and held as a prisoner of war.

When Congress made inquiries of Lincoln, he invoked Executive Privilege.

Page 440

Page 441

O.R. Series 1, Vol. 1, Part 1, Page 440-1

Message of the President of the United States, in answer to a resolution of the Senate requesting information concerning the quasi armistice alluded to in his message of the 4th instant.

JULY 31, 1861.- Read, ordered to lie on the table and be printed.

To the Senate of the United States:

In answer to the resolution of the Senate of the 19th instant, requesting information concerning the quasi armistice alluded to in my message of the 4th instant, I transmit a report from the Secretary of War.

ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

JULY 30, 1861.

NAVY DEPARTMENT,

July 29, 1861.

The Secretary of the Navy, to whom was referred the resolution of the Senate of the 19th instant, requesting the President of the United States to "communicate to the Senate (if not incompatible with the public interest) the character of the quasi armistice to which he refers in his message of the 4th instant, be reason of which the commander of the frigate Sabine refused to transfer the United States troops into Fort Pickens in obedience to his orders; by whom and when such armistice was entered into; and if any, and what, action has been taken by the Government in view of the disobedience of the order of the President aforesaid," has the honor to report that it is believed the communication of the information called for would not, at this time, comport with the public interest.

Respectfully submitted.

GIDEON WELLES.

The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

[nc - Well, Lincoln couldn't very well deliver to Congress a copy of orders dated March 12, 1861 or Captain Adams message of April 1, 1861 which called the orders he received as being of "old date."]


LINK

EXECUTIVE MANSION, July 30, 1861.

To the SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES:

In answer to the resolution of the Senate of the 23rd instant requesting information concerning the imprisonment of Lieutenant John J. Worden [John L. Worden], of the U. S. Navy, I transmit a report from the Secretary of the Navy.

ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

[Inclosure.]

NAVY DEPARTMENT, July 29, 1861.

The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:

The Secretary of the Navy, to whom was referred the resolution of the Senate of the 23rd instant requesting the President of the United States to inform the Senate "under what circumstances Lieutenant John J. Worden [John L. Worden], of the U. S. Navy, has been imprisoned at Montgomery, Ala., whether he is still in prison, and whether any and if any what measures have been taken by the Government of the United States for his release," has the honor to report that it is believed the communication of the information called for would not at this time comport with the public interest.

Respectfully submitted.

GIDEON WELLES.

[nc - Well, he told Congress the message could not be sent by land, and it was impossible to reinforce Fort Pickens before the events at Fort Sumter. So he stonewalled.]


LINK

USS SUPPLY SHIPS LOG - APRIL 11, 1861

210 -- OPERATIONS IN THE GULF OF MEXICO.

Abstract log of the U. S. sbip Supply, January 9 to June 14, 1861, Commander Henry Walke, commanding.

April 7. -- Came to anchor in the harbor of Pensacola.

April 11. -- At 9 p. m. the Brooklyn got Underway and stood in toward the harbor, and during the night landed the troops and marines on board, to reenforce Fort Pickens.

April 16. -- At 5 p. m. steamer Atlantic arrived with troops and muni- tions of war for Fort Pickens. During the night 300 troops were landed on Santa Rosa Island by the boats of the squadron.


CAPTAIN JOHN LORIMER WORDEN
The Philadelphia Enquirer
Saturday, March 15, 1862

Captain (formerly Lieutenant) John Lorimer WORDEN, the hero of the great naval battle at Hampton Roads, and who commanded the gallant little Monitor in her engagement with the Merrimac, is a native and citizen of New York, from which State he received his appointment to the navy in 1834. His entry, as a midshipman, into the service, bears date the 10th of January in that year, his commission as Lieutenant, the 30th of November, 1846. During this time he has seen nearly sixteen years of sea service. His shore and other duty amounted, at the end of 1860, to nearly seven years. Since his appointment he has been only threeyears unemployed. His total length of service up to the present time exceeds twenty-eight years.

He was last as sea in November, 1860, on board the sloop Savannah, twenty-two guns, on the blockading squadron, and was granted a short leave of absence on his return. After this he was sent as a special messenger to Fort Pickens, with despatches to Captain ADAMS of the Sabine. ADAMS was in command of the fleet which, carrying two companies of artillery, had been sent to Fort Pickens for the purpose of its reinforcement. Leaving Washington with despatches which conveyed orders to that effect, on the 7th of April, Lieutenant WORDEN, journeying by way of Richmond and Montgomery, arrived at Pensacola on the 11th. Fearing an arrest and search, owing to the excited state of the country, he tore up his despatches after committing them to memory. As he anticipated, he was arrested at Montgomery, Alabama, and as no papers were found on his person, he was allowed to pass.

On his arrival at Pensacola he obtained a pass from the Rebel General Bragg permitting him to carry a verbal message from Secretary CAMERON to Captain ADAMS. He went to him and repeated from memory his despatches. The fort was reinforced by Captain VOGDES that night; Lieutenant WORDEN took the cars at 8 P.M., on the 12th, on his return, and on the 13th, when within about five miles of Montgomery, he was arrested by five Rebel army officers, under the pretence of having broken his parole, but the main object was to obtain his despatches to the Government, if he should have had any in his possession. He was sent to Montgomery, where he was kept for some time as a prisoner of war. There was an intense excitement against him, as the Rebel General BRAGG had collected a force of 1000 men and intended to attack Fort Pickens the very night it was reinforced. This he subsequently learned. Lieutenant WORDEN was kept in confinement until the middle of November last, hwne he was exchanged and went to Fortress Monroe where he joined the Minnesota. He was afterward detached from that vessel and appointed to command of the Monitor. His gallant performance at the battle of Hampton Roads is recorded in every heart. Under Providence he saved our navy.



634 posted on 09/03/2004 8:58:13 AM PDT by nolu chan
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