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To: redeemed_by_His_blood
Thank you for your reply!

Evidently you missed the context of the question at hand, which is that God loves everyone unconditionally without exception.

No, I didn't miss the context. God indeed does love everyone unconditionally without exception. He even loves His enemies. Christ told us to be perfect, like the Father is perfect, by loving our enemies too. (Matthew 5:43-48)

God's hate is His divine judgment. His mercy is the reason He is very slow to bring that judgment to fruition.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:9

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt. - Daniel 12:2

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, [saying], Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. - Jeremiah 31:3

With regard to Esau, you asked for chapter and verse.

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

For this [is] the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac; (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. - Romans 9:6-16

God choose Jacob over Esau for His mercy before he was born. Thus He says He loved Jacob and hated Esau. In truth, the judgment of eternal contempt was on the both of them (as with all men since Adam). And so was God's love on the both of them since they - like all Adamic men - are made in His image (Genesis 2). But God choose to be merciful to Jacob over Esau.

70 posted on 06/16/2004 1:48:25 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Funny that you choose to see that God loved Esau in the Romans passage when the passages does not say that.

As a matter of fact, what that passage does say is that God loved Jacob before either were born or did anything.

You are reading into the passage words that are not there.

73 posted on 06/16/2004 1:55:23 PM PDT by redeemed_by_His_blood
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To: Alamo-Girl
The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, [saying], Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. - Jeremiah 31:3

That passage is proclaiming God's Eternal Love for the Elect, not for everyone.

74 posted on 06/16/2004 1:57:38 PM PDT by redeemed_by_His_blood
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To: Alamo-Girl
Hi, A-G! This explanation might help reconcile the limited vs.universal atonement debate, at least IMHO:

"In the debate over the extent of the atonement, Calvinists will point to Scriptures connecting Christ's death to a specific people: his sheep (John 10:11); his friends (John 15:13); "many" (Heb. 9:28). Arminians will produce passages indicating that Jesus died for the "whole world" (1 John 2:2); "all" (2 Cor. 5:15); "every man" (Heb. 2:9)."

"These texts can be harmonized when we consider that the redemptive benefits of Christ's death are both specific and universal. God has placed the life-giving fountain of Christ's blood in His Church. Our Lord "loved the church and gave himself up for her" (Eph. 5:25). The Church was "bought with his own blood" (Acts 20:28). That makes the atonement of Christ specific; it was for His Church."

"But the atonement is universal in the sense that the Church's gates are wide open to "everyone who calls" (Rom. 10:13), to "him who is thirsty" (Rev. 21:6), to "all you who are weary and burdened" (Matt. 11:28). The invitation to believe, be baptized and enter the Church extends to "every tribe and language and people and nation" (Rev. 5:9). In that sense, the atonement is universal and available to all."

"Or, looking at in another way, Christ's blood is "the blood of the covenant" (Matt. 26:28). Jesus died for those in the covenant of grace, not for those outside of it. Is that fatalism? Not at all. Anyone may enter that covenant by becoming a Christian. It is open-ended. The atonement, therefore, is both limited and universal. It is both specific and general."

(Excerpted from: click)

82 posted on 06/16/2004 2:40:30 PM PDT by xJones
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To: Alamo-Girl

****No, I didn't miss the context. God indeed does love everyone unconditionally without exception. He even loves His enemies. ***

GOD HATES ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY” Psalms 5:5

THE BIBLE SAYS GOD HATES SINNERS, NOT JUST THE SIN:

Leviticus 20:23: “And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nations which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I ABHORRED THEM.”


Leviticus 26:14-30: “If ye will not hearken unto Me, and will not do all these commandments; And if ye shall despise My statutes, or if your soul abhor My judgments, so that ye will not do all My commandments, but that ye break My covenant, I also will do this to you... [send plagues, famine, drought, destructive armies, wild beasts who shall devour your children, pestilence, captivity in a cruel land...] And if ye will not for all this hearken unto Me, but walk contrary to Me; Then I WILL WALK CONTRARY TO YOU IN FURY... I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcasses upon the carcasses of your idols, and MY SOUL SHALL ABHOR YOU.”




Deuteronomy 18:12 “For all that do these things are an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD, and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.”

Deuteronomy 25:16: “...ALL THAT DO UNRIGHTEOUSLY ARE AN ABOMINATION UNTO THE LORD.”

Deuteronomy 28:62-63: “Because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the Lord thy God... it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will the Lord will REJOICE OVER YOU TO DESTROY YOU, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.” (In Deuteronomy 27, 28, and 29, 124 CURSES are promised upon the Jews who refused to obey God’s commandments.)

Deuteronomy 32:16-20: “They provoked Him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations they provoked Him to ANGER... And when the Lord saw it [people sacrificing to devils - v.17], HE ABHORRED THEM...”

Psalm 2:4-9: “The Lord that sits in the heavens shall LAUGH [at rebellious men]: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall He speak unto them in His WRATH, and VEX THEM IN HIS SORE DISPLEASURE... [and Christ shall] break them with a rod of iron: Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”

Psalm 5:5-6: “The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (lies): THE LORD WILL ABHOR THE BLOODY AND DECEITFUL MAN.”

Psalm 7:11-13: “...God is ANGRY with the wicked every day. If he turn not, He will whet His sword; He hath bent His bow, and made it ready. He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; He ordaineth His arrows against the persecutors.”

Psalm 10:3: “For the wicked... blesseth the covetous, WHOM THE LORD ABHORRETH.”

Psalm 11:5-7: “The Lord trieth the righteous: but THE WICKED AND HIM THAT LOVETH VIOLENCE HIS SOUL HATETH. Upon the wicked He shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous Lord loveth righteousness...”

Psalm 50:22: “Now consider this, ye that forget God, LEST I TEAR YOU IN PIECES, AND THERE BE NONE TO DELIVER.”

Psalm 78:59: “When God heard this He was wroth, and GREATLY ABHORRED ISRAEL.”

Psalm 106:40: “Therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against His people, insomuch that HE ABHORRED HIS OWN INHERITANCE.”

Proverbs 3:32-33: “For the froward is an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD... The CURSE OF THE LORD is in the house of the wicked: but He blesseth the habitation of the just.”

Proverbs 6:16-19: “These six things doth THE LORD HATE: yea, seven are AN ABOMINATION TO HIM... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among the brethren.”

Proverbs 16:5: “Every one that is proud in heart is an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.”

Proverbs 17:5: “He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are ABOMINATION TO THE LORD.”

Proverbs 22:14: “The soul of strange women is a deep pit: HE THAT IS ABHORRED OF THE LORD shall fall therein.”

Jeremiah 17:5: “Thus saith the Lord, CURSED BE THE MAN that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.”

Hosea 9:15: “All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I HATED THEM: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of Mine house, I WILL LOVE THEM NO MORE...”

Malachi 1:3-4: “And I HATED ESAU, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness...thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and the people AGAINST WHOM THE LORD HATH INDIGNATION FOREVER.”

Romans 9:13: “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but ESAU HAVE I HATED.”

I Corinthians 16:22: “If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be ANATHEMA MARANATHA [which means ACCURSED, THE LORD COMETH].”

James 4:4: “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that friendship of the world is ENMITY (or HATRED) WITH GOD? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is an ENEMY OF GOD.”

I Peter 3:12: “For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers: but THE FACE OF THE LORD IS AGAINST THEM THAT DO EVIL.”

Revelation 14:10-11: “[Sinners] shall drink of the wine of the WRATH OF GOD, which is poured without mixture into the cup of HIS INDIGNATION; and he shall be TORMENTED WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS, AND IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB; And the smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up for ever and ever; and they have NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT...”



Proverbs 22:14 - The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein.

Lamentations 2:6 - And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.


Zechariah 11:8 - Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.



Psalm 10:3 - For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.

Psalm 11:5 - The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Psalm 53:5 - There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.

Psalm 73:20 - As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.

Psalm 78:59 - When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:

Psalm 106:40 - Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.

Proverbs 6:16-19 - These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among

Leviticus 20:23 - And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.


Deuteronomy 32:19 - And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.



Psalm 5:6 - Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful
*


Psa 11:5**
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.






The bible tells us he hates those that do evil


* God hates workers of iniquity. (Psalm 5:5)
* God hates the wicked. (Psalm 11:5)
* God hates those who love violence. (Psalm 11:5)
* God hates the froward. (Proverbs 3:32)
* God hates a proud look. (Proverbs 6:16-17)
* God hates a lying tongue. (Proverbs 6:17)
* God hates hands that shed innocent blood. (Proverbs 6:17)
* God hates a heart that devises wicked imaginations. (Proverbs 6:18)
* God hates feet that are swift in running to mischief. (Proverbs 6:18)
* God hates a false witness who speaks lies. (Proverbs 6:19)
* God hates anyone who sows discord among brethren. (Proverbs 6:19)
* God hates lying lips. (Proverbs 12:22)
* God hates the sacrifices of the wicked. (Proverbs 15:8)
* God hates the ways of the wicked. (Proverbs 15:9)
* God hates the thoughts of the wicked. (Proverbs 15:26)
* God hates the proud in heart. (Proverbs 16:5)
* God hates those who justify the wicked. (Proverbs 17:15)
* God hates those who condemn the just. (Proverbs 17:15)


Displeasing God is simply knowing what is considered unholy, unpure, and unworthy in His sight.

The beatitudes are not a new set of commandments that will earn us our salvation.

They instead tell us the fruit of our salvation, Christ in us

This was a teaching to the disciples , not to the unsaved

They reflect the character of Christ , just as the 10 commandments display the nature of Gods holiness


88 posted on 06/16/2004 3:14:22 PM PDT by RnMomof7 (You did not chose me, I chose)
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To: Alamo-Girl
What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. - Romans 9:6-16
God choose Jacob over Esau for His mercy before he was born. Thus He says He loved Jacob and hated Esau. In truth, the judgment of eternal contempt was on the both of them (as with all men since Adam). And so was God's love on the both of them since they - like all Adamic men - are made in His image (Genesis 2). But God choose to be merciful to Jacob over Esau.

It is usually helpful to quote scripture as it is written so the context is correct

Rom 9:10 And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac;

Rom 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, >that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Rom 9:16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

Predestination and election are clearly taught here .

). And so was God's love on the both of them since they - like all Adamic men - are made in His image (Genesis 2).

Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

89 posted on 06/16/2004 3:24:57 PM PDT by RnMomof7 (You did not chose me, I chose)
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To: Alamo-Girl
God choose Jacob over Esau for His mercy before he was born. Thus He says He loved Jacob and hated Esau. In truth, the judgment

Esau sold his birthright for porridge, he regarded it so lightly. When you realize what that birthright was, you understand the scriptures concerning Esau. That's why God didn't like him, yet He told the Jews that they were to have regard for Esau, he was their brother. Jacob went out to meet Esau, carrying gifts, as the Lord instructed.

119 posted on 06/16/2004 9:25:53 PM PDT by D Edmund Joaquin
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