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To: #3Fan
What's the use of sending the Powhatan if you're not going to send sailors to man the guns? Your theory is not logical.

My theory? This whole thing started because you claimed the "guns" were for the "men."

The "guns" were for the gunboats. The "men" were for the "guns," not the other way around as you claimed. Neither the "men" nor the "guns" were at Sumter. It does seem that we can drop this, as you now appear to understand. I'm glad that we were able to enlighten you in this matter.

What's so complex about it? We wanted to send provisions to shore, Lincoln knew that as soon as he tried the Confederates would attack so he sent them to Florida instead. Better to do it that way than to lose both.

Then why send the other ships, knowing that they could do nothing? nolu chan has provided evidence that the men were not lacking in supplies, and even refused the idea of a resupply from anyone but the merchants of Charleston. Once again, it appears to be your theory which doesn't pass the sniff test.

574 posted on 03/08/2004 4:25:20 AM PST by Gianni (Sarcasm, the other white meat.)
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To: Gianni
My theory? This whole thing started because you claimed the "guns" were for the "men."

I said the "arms" looked like they were for the men. What "arms" consisted of, I don't know.

The "guns" were for the gunboats. The "men" were for the "guns," not the other way around as you claimed.

That's not logical. The letter is clear that the captain needed 300 men to get the provisions to shore. If all he needed were the Powhatan's guns, he would've simply said he needed the Powhatan, instead he said he needed "300 sailors". It's assumed that if you're going to send a gunboat that you're going to send men to man the ships big guns, a captain of another ship wouldn't specifically request men to man the guns on the requested ship. Why send a gunboat if you're not going to send men to men the ship's big guns? Amazing the way you neoconfederates will twist things and go against common sense to support your illogical theories.

Neither the "men" nor the "guns" were at Sumter. It does seem that we can drop this, as you now appear to understand. I'm glad that we were able to enlighten you in this matter.

So, the ship was sent elsewhere. Why was that a big deal? Turned out to be a smart move by Lincoln since the Confederacy attacked whether the Powhatan was there or not.

Then why send the other ships, knowing that they could do nothing?

Keep them busy, maybe. The same way we faked an attack somewhere else on D-Day.

nolu chan has provided evidence that the men were not lacking in supplies, and even refused the idea of a resupply from anyone but the merchants of Charleston.

He has? The men were US troops. Once the outlaws rebelled, these troops should've been supplied by our government, not the enemy.

Once again, it appears to be your theory which doesn't pass the sniff test.

And you believe that a captain would ask for a ship and also list the men to man the ships guns. That's like requesting a carrier today, and saying "by the way, send 5000 men with the carrier to run the ship and launch the planes". Hilarious.

575 posted on 03/08/2004 4:48:22 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: Gianni
Fox Report 1865 at OR Page 246

I ["Fleet Admiral" Fox] proposed to anchor three small men-of-war off the entrance to the Swash Channel as a safe base of operations against any naval attack from the enemy, the soldiers and provisions to be carried to the Charleston bar in the Collins steamer Baltic, all the provisions and munitions to be put up in portable packages easily handled by one man, the Baltic to carry 300 extra sailors and a suffi­cient number of armed launches to land all the troops at Fort Sumter in one night.

On paper, the "fighting sailors" were to have supplies [remaining shipboard] for one month. The soldiers were to be landed with supplies for a year. All the provisions and munitions were to be put in portable packages easily handled by one man. One man cannot carry a year's worth of his own provisions. The 300 "fighting sailors" were needed to act as pack mules to carry the hundreds of portable packages of provisions, each designed to be handled by one man.

In reality, nobody was deluded enough to make the attempt. They could have landed a thousand soldiers with a hundred years supplies and it would have made no difference. The fort was reduced to a smoldering ruin in two days. The only thing they really would have needed was two days rations and body bags.

As a military mission, it was impossible as all the army officers had said. Even had the purported mission, such as it was, succeeded in doing what it purported to do, the soldiers reaching the fort would have been surrounded by the batteries observed on April 14 by Commander Rowan:

Link Page 255

April 14. ... At 1 p. m. observed the American flag flying over Fort Sumter. At 2 a salute of fifty guns was fired and the flag was then hauled down. At 4 p. m., the so called Confederate flag, sim­ilar to the one flying over Fort Moultrie during the attack on Major Anderson, was hoisted on Fort Sumter amid a general fire from all the forts and batteries. During the firing in honor of what is called the Confederate flag on Fort Sumter, took the bearings of the different batteries on Morris Island and Sullivan's Island, several of which had hitherto been unnoticed.

North side Sullivan's Island:
Battery bearing N.
Battery bearing N. W. by N.
Battery bearing N. W.
Battery bearing N. W. 1/2 W. Cumming's Point, W. 1/2 S.

Fort Sumter, W. 3/4 N. Extreme front of Morris Island:

Battery bearing S. W. 1/2 W.
Battery bearing S. W. by W. 1/4 W.
Battery bearing S. W. by W. 1/2 W.
Battery bearing W. S. W. 1/2 W.
Battery bearing W. S. W.

On Page 253, Commander Rowan had noted that "Fort Moultrie, Cumming's Point, Fort Johnson, and the sand and floating batteries were all playing on Fort Sumter."

On Page 252, Commander Gillis, the Senior Officer Present, noted, "Found the fort a complete wreck, the fire not yet all extinguished. Its shattered battlements, its tottering walls, presented the appearance of an old ruin."

The purported mission was to take what they could carry on their backs to an indefensible position that could barely hold out 48 hours before being demolished.

They were to be in a fort on a man-made island in the harbor. Clearly, they were to occupy the low ground and have no means of retreat or movement. Unless the "portable packages easily handled by one man" included portable rocket launchers, it is unclear how the additional men could have added to the defensive capability of the fort. The fort was designed to shoot at and sink ships. It could not sink the shore batteries.

Groceries were not needed. Adding soldiers could only add targets and start the shelling.

577 posted on 03/08/2004 8:47:26 AM PST by nolu chan
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