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To: #3Fan
You've spent half this thread trying to say the conventions were legitimate. Are you now saying they were illegitimate?

Nope. stand watie wrote, 'the so-called "declarations" were NOT official documents in ANY state & that NO state EVER sponsored/endorsed the so-called "declarations"'. A point with which I agree. They are not the official documents of the conventions.

There were Declarations of Secession spelling out exactly why secession took place and they say the reason was slavery, the south's own wprds.

The material prosperity of the North was greatly dependent on the Federal Government; that of the the South not at all. In the first years of the Republic the navigating, commercial, and manufacturing interests of the North began to seek profit and aggrandizement at the expense of the agricultural interests. Even the owners of fishing smacks sought and obtained bounties for pursuing their own business (which yet continue), and $500,000 is now paid them annually out of the Treasury. The navigating interests begged for protection against foreign shipbuilders and against competition in the coasting trade. Congress granted both requests, and by prohibitory acts gave an absolute monopoly of this business to each of their interests, which they enjoy without diminution to this day. Not content with these great and unjust advantages, they have sought to throw the legitimate burden of their business as much as possible upon the public; they have succeeded in throwing the cost of light-houses, buoys, and the maintenance of their seamen upon the Treasury, and the Government now pays above $2,000,000 annually for the support of these objects. Theses interests, in connection with the commercial and manufacturing classes, have also succeeded, by means of subventions to mail steamers and the reduction in postage, in relieving their business from the payment of about $7,000,000 annually, throwing it upon the public Treasury under the name of postal deficiency. The manufacturing interests entered into the same struggle early, and has clamored steadily for Government bounties and special favors. This interest was confined mainly to the Eastern and Middle non-slave-holding States. Wielding these great States it held great power and influence, and its demands were in full proportion to its power. The manufacturers and miners wisely based their demands upon special facts and reasons rather than upon general principles, and thereby mollified much of the opposition of the opposing interest. They pleaded in their favor the infancy of their business in this country, the scarcity of labor and capital, the hostile legislation of other countries toward them, the great necessity of their fabrics in the time of war, and the necessity of high duties to pay the debt incurred in our war for independence.
Remember Lincoln was all in favor of an Amendment that would have guaranteed slavery forever, his inaugural speech spoke of allowing the states to secede as long as the turned over the imposts.
1,312 posted on 03/23/2004 8:54:34 AM PST by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Nope. stand watie wrote, 'the so-called "declarations" were NOT official documents in ANY state & that NO state EVER sponsored/endorsed the so-called "declarations"'. A point with which I agree. They are not the official documents of the conventions.

So you accept the secession of the conventions, but not the Declarations from the conventions that say it was for slavery. You're rather choosy. lol

There were Declarations of Secession spelling out exactly why secession took place and they say the reason was slavery, the south's own wprds. The material prosperity of the North was greatly dependent on the Federal Government; that of the the South not at all. In the first years of the Republic the navigating, commercial, and manufacturing interests of the North began to seek profit and aggrandizement at the expense of the agricultural interests. Even the owners of fishing smacks sought and obtained bounties for pursuing their own business (which yet continue), and $500,000 is now paid them annually out of the Treasury. The navigating interests begged for protection against foreign shipbuilders and against competition in the coasting trade. Congress granted both requests, and by prohibitory acts gave an absolute monopoly of this business to each of their interests, which they enjoy without diminution to this day. Not content with these great and unjust advantages, they have sought to throw the legitimate burden of their business as much as possible upon the public; they have succeeded in throwing the cost of light-houses, buoys, and the maintenance of their seamen upon the Treasury, and the Government now pays above $2,000,000 annually for the support of these objects. Theses interests, in connection with the commercial and manufacturing classes, have also succeeded, by means of subventions to mail steamers and the reduction in postage, in relieving their business from the payment of about $7,000,000 annually, throwing it upon the public Treasury under the name of postal deficiency. The manufacturing interests entered into the same struggle early, and has clamored steadily for Government bounties and special favors. This interest was confined mainly to the Eastern and Middle non-slave-holding States. Wielding these great States it held great power and influence, and its demands were in full proportion to its power. The manufacturers and miners wisely based their demands upon special facts and reasons rather than upon general principles, and thereby mollified much of the opposition of the opposing interest. They pleaded in their favor the infancy of their business in this country, the scarcity of labor and capital, the hostile legislation of other countries toward them, the great necessity of their fabrics in the time of war, and the necessity of high duties to pay the debt incurred in our war for independence. Remember Lincoln was all in favor of an Amendment that would have guaranteed slavery forever, his inaugural speech spoke of allowing the states to secede as long as the turned over the imposts.

Lincoln was trying to save the union and knew an amendment could be repealed by another amendment later. Slavery couldn't be ended without union.

1,321 posted on 03/23/2004 9:07:17 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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