Free Republic

What matters is what the situation was in the Deep South and in the Deep South the Democratic Party and the one party system were the vehicles of conservative rule in the region and remained so until a few decades ago at earliest to the mid 1990s at latest and white Southerners as a rule uniformly considered the Democratic Party as “the conservative party”...

That must be why they all voted for FDR and the New Deal four times. Does your simplistic "Southerners vs The World" concept also call the New Deal Conservative?

I remember all of the old southern segregationists who the media always called "conservatives". They were not conservatives in any form. They were big government liberals who loved tax and spend government just as long as they were allowed to "keep the Darkies in their place." Soime of them were in fact outright pinko leftists like Al Gore Sr. (the Senator from Moscow via Armond Hammer) and Wm. Fullbright.

The Tea Party was unable to stop 0bamaCare from passing

And tell me, oh, 'witty one'(/sarcasm), what has the Republican Party done to stop it, much less anything else that'll be coming down the highway to hell? Huh?

That has absolutely nothing to do with the political orientation in Southern states in the postbellum period. I won’t bother looking it up.

What matters is what the situation was in the Deep South and in the Deep South the Democratic Party and the one party system were the vehicles of conservative rule in the region and remained so until a few decades ago at earliest to the mid 1990s at latest and white Southerners as a rule uniformly considered the Democratic Party as “the conservative party” until the presidency of Lyndon Johnson and the Election of 1964. I know this because I grew up in the Deep South. I grew up with all of this. I had grandparents who even into their old age voted Democratic because it was the “conservative” party and the party that had fought off Reconstruction

In a Southern election in the late 19th century the same voters that today make up the coalition of the Democrats (and so called Blue Dogs) were the same voters who made up the Republican/Populist fusionist movements in states like Alabama and North Carolina and in fact, when Republicans did get elected the template was the exact same as Blue Dogs today, run a candidate whose conservative credentials were good enough (and they had a preference for running Confederate veterans of commissioned rank) that they could peel off enough white conservatives votes that they’d either win in heavily black districts or in yeoman poor white districts where Unionist sentiment had left a large Republican voter stock

I would argue that Barack Obama is the fulfillment of the Radical ideology of the 1860s because in many ways, he is trying to radically “reconstruct” America in the same way that they wanted to reconstruct us after the late unpleasantness.

That’s how we explain it in the schools to our children. That’s how I explained it to my children when I taught them about politics and so forth. And I explained it because it is the truth.

The only truth about it is that it is simplistic to the point of misinformation. History does not work that way. There are very few political issues today that can be compared to the issues back then -- slavery-abortion being the only one I can think of off the top of my head. The one constant in American politics is the tendency of the the Democrats to demagogue race and class as political weapons.

Here's a little exercise for you. Using your formula of a 180 degree 'switch' in what the parties stood for, below is a section from one of the Party Platforms from back in the late 19th century.

Now be honest (don't look it up) and tell me if it was the Conservative or the Liberal party?

This Convention hereby renews the expression of appreciation of the patriotism of the soldiers and sailors of the Union in the war for its preservation, and we favor just and liberal pensions for all disabled Union soldiers, their widows and dependents...

The Federal Government should care for and improve the Mississippi River and other great waterways of the Republic, so as to secure for the interior States easy and cheap transportation to tide water. When any waterway of the Republic is of sufficient importance to demand the aid of the Government, such aid should be extended upon a definite plan of continuous work, until permanent improvement is secured.

For purposes of national defense and the promotion of commerce between the States, we recognize the early construction of the Nicaragua Canal and its protection against foreign control as of great importance to the United States.

Recognizing the World's Columbian Exposition as a national undertaking of vast importance, in which the General Government has invited the cooperation of all the powers of the world, and appreciating the acceptance by many of such powers of the invitation so extended, and the broad and liberal efforts being made by them to contribute to the grandeur of the undertaking, we are of opinion that Congress should make such necessary financial provision as shall be requisite to the maintenance of the national honor and public faith.

Popular education being the only safe basis of popular suffrage, we recommend to the several States most liberal appropriations for the public schools. Free common schools are the nursery of good government, and they have always received the fostering care of the --------- party, which favors every means of increasing intelligence.

We favor legislation by Congress and State Legislatures to protect the lives and limbs of railway employees and those of other hazardous transportation companies....

We are in favor of the enactment by the States of laws for abolishing the notorious sweating system, for abolishing contract convict labor, and for prohibiting the employment in factories of children under 15 years of age.

Lavish government pensions or support for the military? Taxpayer money for pro-business public works projects even in a foreign country? Government money for a privatly operated Wold's Fair in Chicago? Government money for free schools? Government regulation of private employment practices?

These were the issues back then. Which party favored all of this... the Liberal party or the Conservative party?

Chump change.

You may have seen the last of him for this year, but next year he may double-down his TV appearances. In play besides his ego, of course, is his well-founded nagging fear of being increasingly irrelevant to the American people. Disappearing from daily public view translates into a complete loss of relevancy.

For the majority of patriots in this country, he is irrelevant 24/7 as a human being but relevant 24/7 if we cannot stop his Marxist agenda.

Regards . . . Penny

Lincoln ordered summary executions on captured Confederate soldiers. He ordered the imprisonment of reporters who questioned him. His government harassed the Copperheads.

Lincoln was a brutal dictator whether you like it or not and he was the founder of modern liberalism.

No kidding. The Republicans of the 1860s and 1870s advocated affirmative action and land redistribution for chrissakes. It was a mainstream Republican position during that time that land in the South should be forcibly confiscated from white owners and handed over to freedman. Basically, the position of Robert Mugabe.

There was nothing remotely conservative about the origins of the party or the initial stances it took. The Republicans only truly started becoming a conservative party with the nomination of Barry Goldwater in 1964 and only cemented it in 1980 with the nomination and election of Ronald Wilson Reagan.

Where was Chrissy when the GOP swept New Jersey in November? I guess he only looks at returns that suit his extreme left wing agenda.

I’m a Southerner. I know exactly why things used to be as they were and why they are as they are now.

Look at what the Democrats are today and what the Republicans are today. Reverse them and you get an exact match for the situation in Reconstruction. You can’t deny that Charles Sumner would be a raging liberal Democrat today. You can’t deny that Thaddeus Stevens would be a raging liberal Democrat today. As would Grant.

In 1870, Barack Obama would have been a radical Republican. Just look at history. Almost every Bourbon would have been a Republican in the modern political format and every Radical Reconstructionist would have been a Democrat today. There is virtually no difference in the positions advocated by the CBC today and those advocated by their forebears representing Southern states in Congress in the 1870s

And just look at the political history of the late 1800s. Republicans always passed grandiose budgets and ran on populist record while Democrats ran as conservative financial stewards and budget cutters. Cleveland would be a Republican in the modern political alignment. So would Alton Parker. Teddy Roosevelt would be a Democrat today. Hoover would be a Democrat today. Wilson would be a Republican today. It’s just the way it is. They did switch.

That’s how we explain it in the schools to our children. That’s how I explained it to my children when I taught them about politics and so forth. And I explained it because it is the truth. Look at the Democrats today. They carry on the spirit of Reconstruction. And the Republicans today? Well, we carry on the spirit of the brave men and women who fought to liberate the region from that evil.

Northern Republicans have a hard time accepting this because Lincoln and his supposed “heroism” is a part of their mythology but it is the truth. Look at a political map from the 1890s-1900s. You’ll find that the red-blue split is completely reversed for the most part. That should tell you all you need to know.

In the South, we have no qualms about this at all. We’ll gladly tell you that they switched because we have no desire to claim Abraham Lincoln and U.S. Grant as our own.

He forgot to say anthing to the troops and someone in the press had to call him out on it. He fumbled around noticably.

Color me shocked! (/sarc)

Obama: "We can't doom another generation of Americans to soaring costs and eroding coverage and exploding deficits...

Zero needs to get into some kind of drug rehab program . . . drug abuse is the ONLY explanation for how he can lie to the American people like this.

Everybody ... and I mean EVERYBODY ... needs to save file copies of all the voting roll calls from this atrocity.

When the traitors try to repackage themselves in 2010 as moderates or even conservatives, in the hopes that we forget and we’ll send their miserable asses back to Washington, we MUST be able to show EXACTLY where and where they screwed us!

The Dems have been lying to us for months. Don’t let them pull off the biggest lie of all! They are TRAITORS and we must REMEMBER that they are traitors and remind our fellow citizens that they are traitors!!

They won’t care. You see, they will have the voting blocs needed to remain in power.

They see the options of the US people as two: 1. Shout and protest and complain and threaten, but essentially live with it and accept a greatly reduced standard-of-living; 2. Armed uprising.

They are betting the farm that Americans will choose option 1.

Maybe you don’t mind watching loved-ones suffer and die because the government refuses them the treatment they need, but I sure as hell mind.

We have the best medical care the entire history of the world has ever seen and is currently the best on the planet.

I’m not willing to throw that down the tubes.

But you’re right, Medicare and Medicaid are both socialized medicine. The only difference is that they target select demographics for control and maltreatment.

THE BILLS THEY ARE PUSHING NOW WILL TARGET ALL PEOPLE FOR CONTROL AND MALTREATMENT.

The new meaning of the word historic...expensive...very, very expensive. RIP United States of America.

I couldn’t agree with you more!

That is prolly the reason the MSM pundits keep citing the 12-25 million number. They know the peeps would flip if they knew the real number.

Indeed!

btw, your other point is well taken...about the notion of the granting of amnesty viewed as an invitation to come here illegally.

Pres. Reagan learned that the hard way. He was promised border control in exchange for the 1986 amnesty and really didn’t get it. That amnesty became known as simply widespread document fraud stimulus. Which is what any amnesty now would become, as well.

Finally, it’s important to note who the first losers of amnesty will be. Many non-profits have noted this, so I won’t bore you with all of that, but their conclusions are te same:

The biggest losers via amnesty are the naturalized citizens, the now-legal immigrants. Every study has shown that they are the FIRST people to become unemployed after amnesty; that is exactly what happened after 1986.

What a mess...

Btw, Merry Christmas! :)

Pelosi has assured her members that she won’t put them through another controversial vote, unless the Senate passes it first, and she was speaking about immigration, among other things. (at least not before the 2010 elections)

The Senate will pass an amnesty just like they did in 2006 with Hagel-Martinez and that was in a Rep controlled Senate. It was the Rep controlled House led by Sensenbrenner that stopped it. The real battle over amnesty will be fought in the House. So Pelosi will have the added advantage of a senate passed bill.

If Michael Steele had any brains at all, he’d find an anti-amnesty African-American, conservative, and run him or her against every member of the Congressional Black Caucus in the Dem primary. He’d have to figure out a way to launder the money through a third group. That person should run on nothing other than preventing amnesty. Given the 30+ percent unemployment in the black community overall and the mind-boggling 50+ percent unemployment among black teenagers, it shouldn’t be hard to pick up a couple seats.

My grassroots immigration group has sponsored nationwide polls on the issue. Blacks share the same attitude on amnesty as most Americans and yes, they are the ones hurt the most by this steady stream of immigration, legal and illegal. It depresses wages and most of the jobs affected are unskilled, which hits the black community the hardest.

The problemn is that this issue does not translate into votes for Reps. Blacks still vote over 90% for Dems and will continue to do so for a long time to come, now that we have our first black President who happens to be a Democrat. We would be far better advised to target white, blue collar Reagan Democrats and stress American jobs for American workers. The leaders of the black community and the labor unions have been bought off by the Dems.

The 30 million wasn’t the rhetorical part, the rhetorical part was the question of how rewarding certain behavior would discourage it in the future. Actually, I believe 30 million underestimates the number of illegals here and the actual number of closer to 40 million. See, about halfway down in this

http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc_17_4/tsc_17_4_walsh.shtml

Of course I am.

Problem is, that 30 million isn’t rhetorical at all to me! (although it would have when I was in Ohio) I’m in St. George, UT! I’ve got as good a chance at hearing Spanish in my grocery store as I do hearing English. And I’m not kidding a bit.

Because the economy out here is so bad, we’re also FLOODED with license plates from NV, AZ, CA etc.

Possibly , but I don’t see it. If they had such a disaster with health care after most people were sown to be for it. I only see disaster for passing something that 70% plus of the poplation is vehiminately opposed to. Look what happened to Spitzer last year when he tried to give the drivers licenses. If they do that it will fail and Obama and the Dem’s in congress will be past the point of no return.

Before he signs this bill someone in congress or in the media needs to ask if he is even constitutionally qualified to sign it. Now is the time if ever for congressmen to step up and put him on the spot.

There is one bright spot in this.

Pelosi has assured her members that she won’t put them through another controversial vote, unless the Senate passes it first, and she was speaking about immigration, among other things. (at least not before the 2010 elections)

If Michael Steele had any brains at all, he’d find an anti-amnesty African-American, conservative, and run him or her against every member of the Congressional Black Caucus in the Dem primary. He’d have to figure out a way to launder the money through a third group. That person should run on nothing other than preventing amnesty. Given the 30+ percent unemployment in the black community overall and the mind-boggling 50+ percent unemployment among black teenagers, it shouldn’t be hard to pick up a couple seats.

Let them run as an Independent in the general election and they can caucus with the Republicans.

heh

There was a time when the GOP was the northern liberal party and hated the down home values we in the South stand for while the Democrats stood up for those values.

I'd remind the poster that a very large percentage of the 19th Century Democrat party took the position that Jefferson and the other signers of the Declaration of Independence were mistaken on their belief that All Men are Created Equal and that our Inalienable Rights are endowed by our Creator.

I would also say that the only political/social issue we face today that compares with the slavery issue of 150 years ago is the issue of abortion. And once again, the Democrats largely stand on the side of no rights for the unborn while Republicans largely stand by the concept of an Inalienable Right to Life and Liberty for all.

I'd also say that for the poster to buy into the concept that the parties have 'switched sides' and that Lincoln would be a liberal today is buying into the big Democrat lie that they have used over the last half century to mask their ugly racial history. It is simply not accurate.

The 19th Century Democrat Party, both North and South, played the Race and Class cards for all they were worth breeding hatred and distrust among people looking to divide them into factions and then play those factions for electoral victory. They do the exact same thing today. They are still the party of division today relying on ignorance, and resentment. Nothing has changed in their tactics or values.

He forgot to say anthing to the troops and someone in the press had to call him out on it. He fumbled around noticably.

Are you familiar with the concept of a rhetorical question?

McCain is also coming up for reelection in 2010. You can bet Graham will supporting it as his proxy. The Dems don’t need Rep help, but they will get it.

“They had not heard the text of Directive 10-289, but they knew what it would contain. They had known it for a long time, in that special manner which consisted of keeping secrets from oneself and leaving knowledge untranslated into words. And, by the same method, they now wished it were possible for them not to hear the words of the directive. It was to avoid moments such as this that all the complex twistings of their minds had been devised.

They wished the directive to go into effect. They wished it could be put into effect without words, so that they would not have to know that what they were doing was what it was. Nobody had ever announced that Directive 10-289 was the final goal of his efforts. Yet, for generations past, men had worked to make it possible, and for months past, every provision of it had been prepared for by countless speeches, articles, sermons, editorials- by purposeful voices that screamed in anger if anyone named their purpose.”

They don’t care about that, lady. They care about staying in power, thinking newly legal immigrants will reward them with their votes. They truly don’t care about our quality of life; they are concerned only with their own quality of life.

Thirty million illegals eligible for amnesty? That’s the low number; I have that many living on my street. LOL I am here in S. Utah only 6 miles from the AZ border. The number is prolly close to 50 million they intend to give amnesty to.

I have no problems with Mexican people. Those I’ve known are hardworking family people. What I have a problem with are their American advocates...who are militant about making them “entitled” to all that America offers. The other thing that bugs me is that Central American folks in general, are, like the rest of us...products of their environment.

The gov’t corruption that has held them back in their home countries is all they’ve come to know, so it’s natural that they bring it here. There is a huge problem in communities in the SW with bribery of public officials. It was rare in the past.

Unwittingly, these new arrivals are bringing with them and trying to implement, the same tired, corrupt system that impoverished them in their home country. It’s sad.

I thought he was his brother’s keeper. Geez. Can’t he invite him to the mansion in Hawaii for the week? Guess he’s embarrassed by his roots.

If only his father stayed in Kenya.

"We can't doom another generation of Americans to soaring costs and eroding coverage and exploding deficits."

How can he get it out of his mouth????

Doesn’t make that big a difference if you bank your money or spend it - other than that not spending denying states sales tax revenues and some federal tax money (such as on gas) because you’re going to pay income tax on what you’ve earned and tax on the interest you’ve earned.

The only real way to starve the beast is to cut back earned income as much as possible or drastically increase your charitable giving so as to minimize the federal income tax bite. You have to go Galt - that’s the only way.

If I were the democrats, I’d develop a strategy to run third party candidates against republicans. For example, if there was a conservative republican candidate, you could run a candidate to the right of the republican candidate. They’ve done this before, and will look for any strategy that would split the republican vote. They have no other way to hold onto power than tricking the voters.

“WE MUST DEFEAT SOCIALIZED MEDICINE.”

Medicare is socialized medicine. If we’re going to be against socialism, you gotta go all the way.

No, I think, unfortunately there is no defeating it - there is only destroying it by letting it be implemented the rest of the way and spectacularly failing.

Media Silent About Obama’s Hut-Dwelling Sibling | Bob McCarty Writes
http://bobmccarty.com/2008/08/22/media-silent-about-obamas-hut-dwelling-sibling

“I’ll be Home for Christmas ... well ... uh ...”

“I’ll miss his hut for Christmas. Just you wait and see. I’ll miss his hut for X ... mas ... Uh ... happy Quanza everyone.”

They’re pretty deaf. LOUD doesn’t count unless accompanied by the “ssst” of something going by fast and close!

It's becoming obvious that Democrats are on a kamikaze mission. If they're going to go down anyhow, they might as well go down spectacularly. If they can jam through health care, jamming this through will be a piece of cake.

Not even these wlll give pause:

If the bill ping pongs unchanged from Senate to House to Hussein, no more cloture votes. If it goes to Conference, yes, more cloture votes.

I don’t know if they can fillibuster the conference committee report. Probably not. It probably doesn’t matter, Massachusets’ chances of electing a Republican are somewhere closer to none than slim.

“””With today’s vote, we are now incredibly close to making health insurance reform a reality in this country””””

---

It is always amazing to watch the changing reform. It goes from healthcare to insurance reform in the blink of an eye.

Kinda like global warming morphing into climate change.

“I know some of you are calling us the Grinch. I want you to know that this is change you can believe in. In fact, I have some change in my pocket, which I will not be sending to my brother’s hut for Christmas. Change you can believe in ...”

You are all free now

Methinks not far down the road the people’s voice will be heard and it will not just be voices .

Not to worry, ZERO said he won't sign any bill that adds one dime to the deficit. This adds about a Trillion dollars especiallly when you add the $$ they paid to individual members for their vote.

Chicago Politics....60 targets...

Screw the people's voice!!!

House and Senate will not reach an agreement until after the SOTU speech. That will give Obie an opportunity to lie to the nation (again) about what will be in the legislation in what I hope will be a futile attempt to garner support.

Very true. Amnesty is the “poison pill.”