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  • Study What General Pershing Did To Terrorists When Caught

    08/17/2017 5:29:05 PM PDT · 20 of 43
    x to The people have spoken
    Pershing wrote in his memoirs that one officer buried a Muslim insurgent with a pig and said that it was something the army did, but it's a leap to say that it was Pershing's idea or his policy.

    It's going too far to say that Pershing definitely was responsible, but since Pershing did write about the story in his book, the president isn't entirely wrong this time.

  • Seattle Named After Slave Owner (Vanity)

    08/17/2017 5:22:37 PM PDT · 5 of 56
    x to llevrok
    Seattle is in King county, named after William R. King, 13th vice president of the United States and a slave owner.

    This was so embarrassing that in 1986 the county was "renamed" after Martin Luther King, Jr.

  • Greenfield: The Democrats’ Dangerous Dolchstosslegende

    08/17/2017 5:10:57 PM PDT · 25 of 27
    x to Louis Foxwell
    Podesta and Mook, like General Ludendorff and Hindenburg had the most need to assign failure elsewhere.

    This could be the first time anywhere that those four guys have ever appeared in the same sentence.

    And millions of loyalists were eager to be convinced that they had not truly been defeated.

    I'm not so sure about those millions of loyalists.

    A lot of people who voted for Clinton just wish she'd cut it out and go away.

  • Seattle mayor requests removal of Lenin, Confederate statues

    08/17/2017 5:07:04 PM PDT · 23 of 34
    x to Phineas1962

    The United Daughters of the Confederacy put up monuments to the Confederate dead all over the country back in the 1920s.

  • Mayor Orders Removal of Wisconsin Confederate Memorial

    08/17/2017 4:39:47 PM PDT · 73 of 128
    x to Diana in Wisconsin
    Hmmm ... I guess this wouldn't be the best time for Southern states to ask Wisconsin for the captured Confederate flags back ...
  • Mayor Orders Removal of Wisconsin Confederate Memorial

    08/17/2017 4:13:55 PM PDT · 47 of 128
    x to Diana in Wisconsin
    On Thursday, Madison Mayor Paul Soglin ordered it taken down.

    Former SDS. He's been mayor on and off for over 40 years.

  • Republicans Embrace Movement That Wants To Destroy Them

    08/17/2017 4:10:01 PM PDT · 90 of 114
    x to ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
    What most people know about what happened was Nazis were there and a car drove into protestors, and that's what the politicians are responding to.

    You can expand that to point out that there were people on the other side who were violent as well, but you have to take care not to be thought soft on Nazis and people who drive cars into crowds.

  • Stonewall Jackson's great-great-grandsons call for statue of their ancestor to be taken down

    08/17/2017 3:54:11 PM PDT · 28 of 51
    x to Southside_Chicago_Republican
    If I were the great-great grandson of Stonewall Jackson, I would call myself Stonewall just so people would ask if I was related.

    "Stonewall" has a different meaning now, so you might get some unwanted attention.

    And if you wanted a career in broadcasting, you might just call yourself "Stone."

    This guy, no relation to Jackson, seems to have scrubbed the Internet of almost all mention that his birth name was "Stonewall."

  • Stonewall Jackson's great-great-grandsons call for statue of their ancestor to be taken down

    08/17/2017 3:47:35 PM PDT · 24 of 51
    x to WashingtonSource; DoodleDawg; rockrr
    How sick and depraved to tarnish the reputation of your forebears who are not here to defend themselves. That takes a special level of moral degeneracy and indecency.

    How tarnish? They say they're not ashamed of their ancestor.

    Moral degeneracy and indecency? There were many people in history that you might be uncomfortable being descended from, does that make you indecent or a degenerate?

    I don't share their sentiments (shame at the monument, guilt over white privilege), but Stonewall Jackson was a convinced Christian and maybe he would.

    Maybe he wouldn't have wanted statues of himself put up in the same way that many war heroes don't like to talk about their experiences.

    The monuments usually weren't put up by the people they depict.

    Sometimes it was those who never saw action who were most devoted to the myths.

  • Donald Trump has no grasp of what it means to be president

    08/17/2017 3:37:58 PM PDT · 24 of 57
    x to detective

    One thing professional politicians and political consultants do well — maybe the only thing, maybe not — is issue statements when something terrible happens. Another is damage control after they say something that provokes an outcry. That’s something Donald Trump has to figure out — and quickly, too.

  • Time for Trump to start a third party(no RINOs allowed) (Vanity)

    08/17/2017 3:10:54 PM PDT · 37 of 54
    x to KamperKen
    Many years ago I read Upton Sinclair’s book, “I Candidate for Governor, and How I Lost”. He ran for the governor of California as a Democrat though he was a socialist.

    Sinclair made the point that to win an election one needed to belong to a party with grandfathers, so he ran as a Democrat.

    Great anecdote. And true, too. The book is available online at Google Books.

    Many people who might vote for Donald Trump as a Republican (or maybe even as a Democrat) wouldn't bother to vote for a "Trump Party."

  • A Strawman Made of Bronze

    08/17/2017 3:02:44 PM PDT · 4 of 4
    x to jfd1776
    The reason why is instructive: While Lee was an opponent of slavery, he viewed the United States as a federation, not as a single nation. He believed his true debt of loyalty was to his country, which was Virginia… so he believed he had no choice. While northerners viewed the United States as a single nation, so rebels must be classified as traitors, most southerners viewed each state as a nation, and the United States as a voluntary association.

    So when Lee was fighting Mexico, he didn't think he was fighting for his nation?

    Lee's father was Federalist -- he didn't think the US was his country?

    We can't get inside the heads of people back then, but it must have been more complicated than he says.

    Madison and Monroe and Tyler and Polk must have had some sense that they were serving a united nation in the days before slavery became a major issue.

    P.S. Lee wasn't an "opponent of slavery" in any real way. A letter to his wife saying that he hoped God would get rid of slavery when it had done its work isn't "opposition" to slavery.

    Robert E. Lee would have felt like a traitor to Virginia if he had heeded the call from the United States to fight against his countrymen in Virginia.

    And did he "feel" like a traitor for fighting against the country he'd sworn an oath of allegiance to?

    If you want to be tolerant and sympathetic when it comes to Lee, fine, but you have to show the same tolerance and sympathy to other people and their difficult cases.

  • Who Was Really at Fault in Charlottesville?

    08/17/2017 2:45:55 PM PDT · 29 of 112
    x to 2ndDivisionVet
    I heard it was a case of mistaken identity.

    Er ... Charlottesville ... I thought you said Chancellorsville ...

  • For What is the Confederacy to be Blamed?

    08/17/2017 2:04:26 PM PDT · 140 of 173
    x to DiogenesLamp
    So you'd split up the country and invite possible foreign intervention because 50 years later a united America might have been strong enough to win a war and that victory might have bad consequences?

    Nobody has that kind of clairvoyance. We make decisions based on what we can see at the time. We take possible future outcomes into account but none as remote or unlikely as that.

    Historical outcomes aren't as predictable in prospect as they are in retrospect. Any historical outcome is the result of hundreds or thousands of factors and decisions. You'd probably kill people as babies because of what they might do later on, but there are many other less radical interventions that might prevent bad consequences.

  • For What is the Confederacy to be Blamed?

    08/17/2017 1:56:57 PM PDT · 137 of 173
    x to DiogenesLamp
    Mercantilism was the idea that states should maximize their balance of payments, foreign exports, and reserves of gold and silver. You've fallen for a polemical and pejorative definition of the word as including all departures from some supposed ideal free market laissez-faire policy. Well, all countries and all governments depart from laissez-faire in one way or another. Industrial development policies aren't mercantilism, except in some people's skewed imagination.

    Subsidies to Southerners included tariffs on hemp and sugar, which were very popular in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Louisiana. Southern ports and rivers were dredged multiple times to facilitate transportation. The federal government played a major role in acquiring, surveying, and selling new lands in both North and South. But the biggest subsidy -- the biggest departure from free markets -- was slavery, which outweighed other departures from free market economics.

    Unprofitable rail lines were built in part because farmers wanted and needed them. The lines couldn't pay their way, so they charged more and the farmers complained about the freight charges. Eventually those lines, and many others, were closed down. But I wouldn't call them useless. At a time before automobiles and airplanes, railroads were extremely valuable to rural Americans. And while one line might prove to have little value, one built at the same time to a place that may have seemed equally unpromising in the beginning, might prove to be important to the state or national economy.

    I have read that they were forced to use the railroads even when river barges were available and satisfactory. I read this recently, and I also recall reading this decades ago when I was learning about this period in history.

    Somebody stuck a gun to their heads and told them to use the choo-choo? I don't think so. You'll have to provide some proof of that.

    Barges were smaller in those days. Even today, it can be hard to handle massive barges. It couldn't have been easy in the old days.

    Plus, not all rivers were navigable. Rapids and sandbars, falls and flooding could make transportation very difficult. If you wanted a water transport system to rival the rail system it could have ended up costing a pretty penny. Wikipedia says:

    The barge and canal system contended favourably with the railways in the early Industrial Revolution before around the 1850s–1860s — for example, the Erie Canal in New York state is credited by economic historians with giving the growth boost needed for New York City to eclipse Philadelphia as America's largest port and city — but such canal systems with their locks, need for maintenance and dredging, pumps and sanitary issues were eventually outcompeted in the carriage of high-value items by the railways due to the higher speed, falling costs and route flexibility of rail transport.

  • This is War and We Intend to Win [My Fellow Conservatives -- This is Zero Hour.]

    08/16/2017 5:45:37 PM PDT · 17 of 61
    x to SarahPalin2012
    The truth is the Charlosttesville group were protesting the removal of General Lee -- it is a reasonable protest.

    That was the occasion of the rally.

    It wasn't necessarily the reason why individuals and groups came.

    It wasn't necessarily the purpose everyone there had.

    For example, the occasion for Woodstock was a rock concert.

    But it wasn't everybody's reason or purpose for going there.

  • Anonymous Plans Ops to Take Down Confederate Monuments at 11 Sites Friday

    08/16/2017 5:40:29 PM PDT · 22 of 26
    x to FatherofFive
    Take down all the FDR statues. He incarcerated the Japs.

    Incinerated them, too.

    Or maybe that was Truman.

  • FACT CHECK: Did Robert E. Lee Oppose Slavery?

    08/16/2017 5:34:33 PM PDT · 118 of 133
    x to TBP
    Lee wasn’t an abolitionist. They were somewhat disruptive in his view. He was a gradual emancipationist, who criticized the system and hoped that it would end eventually (gradually.) The abolitionists were radicals who wanted to change the system overnight. People like Lee were gradualists who thought it better if there was an adjustment and a phase out.

    So many people are angry at RINOs and moderates and the wishy-washy. You can be mad at somebody who says, in effect, "This is bad, but we shouldn't do anything about it until it's done it's work and God does away with it Himself in his own good time."

    There's a contradiction when it comes to Lee. If you are one of the people who are really mad at those who won't take a stand and who just expect everything will be alright in the end, you should take another look at Lee and judge him by the same standard and see how he measures up. If on the other hand, you really want to honor Lee, maybe you should take another look at today's politics and politicians and wonder if people haven't been too hard on them.

  • For What is the Confederacy to be Blamed?

    08/16/2017 3:04:21 PM PDT · 77 of 173
    x to DiogenesLamp
    Modern America still echos Civil War era America in it's voting patterns.

    I think you mean it's something like the reverse, but look at the maps for 1976 or 1992. They give a very different picture.

  • For What is the Confederacy to be Blamed?

    08/16/2017 2:59:52 PM PDT · 73 of 173
    x to DiogenesLamp; DoodleDawg; Ditto
    King George III could have utterly crushed the USA had he been as vicious as Lincoln.

    Doubtful. It was a different world. Less industrialized, more decentralized. Armies were smaller, weapons less destructive.

    Washington could lose and would lose national capital after national capital. Congress moved something like six or seven times during the war. It didn't make a difference.

    Lee was fighting a different kind of war -- maybe because it was a different world. For him it was Richmond or nothing and if he lost Richmond he lost the war.

    Could Lee have fought something more like a guerrilla war? Would that have won the war for him?

    As it was, the British were quite vicious enough during the Revolution.

    Don't let your knee-jerk hatred of Abraham Lincoln blind you to real historical factors and real historical questions.