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Posts by exDemMom

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  • How the feds block Ebola cures

    10/20/2014 4:39:21 AM PDT · 4 of 32
    exDemMom to bert
    except that the Food and Drug Administration’s insistence on randomized studies and endless demands for more data means firms have to spend millions on paperwork instead of producing medicines

    Without those studies, how are we supposed to know if a drug or vaccine actually works? Just because a drug cures an animal of a disease does not mean it will do the same in humans. There are many drugs that work very well in rodents or monkeys that do nothing for humans.

    There is a big problem in trying to test if Ebola drugs or vaccines work in humans. The problem is that we cannot expose people to Ebola to see if a drug or vaccine works. Politics and funding have nothing to do with this.

    My supervisor thinks we should test these things on prisoners. I'm sure many people would agree with him. However, ethics committees (and probably laws) would prevent such testing.

  • No illness detected in Ebola patient's fiancee, family

    10/20/2014 4:31:03 AM PDT · 86 of 95
    exDemMom to palmer
    It's doubtful that the nurses (or anyone else) was infected at that point. First because it was not long after the family contact and they were not infected.

    Actually, the CDC investigation found that Duncan was contagious, and the nurses were using PPE incorrectly when they arrived on Sept. 30. Frieden said CDC investigators found that on Sept. 30, the day of Duncan's Ebola diagnosis, healthcare workers were donning "three or four" layers of protective gloves and gowns, thinking that would increase protection from the virus. But such measures, Frieden warned, may have increased infection risk. There were many issues with the PPE, not just the one quoted here. I do not want to quote too much from the LA Times, but the full article has a lot more information.

  • No illness detected in Ebola patient's fiancee, family

    10/20/2014 4:24:11 AM PDT · 85 of 95
    exDemMom to R.I.chopper
    Their PPE was inadequate! Uncle Tom Friedan blamed (and is still covertly blaming ) it on that stupid breech of protocol. It was the LACK of adequate PPE!!! The meme from my fellow RN’S should be a resounding: WE WANT WHAT YOU HAVE,TOM!

    Seriously. Waiting until the patient is definitively diagnosed and the CDC comes to town is a little late to start using proper PPE. THAT is the hospital's fault. It's not like proper PPE for treating hemorrhagic fever patients is some kind of big secret--it isn't.

  • No illness detected in Ebola patient's fiancee, family

    10/20/2014 4:17:14 AM PDT · 84 of 95
    exDemMom to goodwithagun
    Except they were using CDC guidelines. I believe that was proven to you on another thread.

    Nothing of the sort was "proven."

    Ebola: 5 things nurses say the Texas hospital got wrong.

    Nurses: Hospital’s Ebola response put workers, patients at risk

    With Ebola cases, CDC zeros in on lapses in protocol, protective gear

    I know it makes for greater drama if they were using the proper PPE and correct techniques for removing it and still got Ebola. But that is not the case here.

    Thousands of healthcare professionals manage to work with infectious disease patients every day without infecting themselves. When the proper PPE and correct procedures are not used, however, there are problems.

    With proper PPE use, it is possible to take care of hemorrhagic fever patients without even knowing why they are sick, and avoid infection. It has been done before with Marburg, a virus very similar to, and more deadly than, Ebola.

  • No illness detected in Ebola patient's fiancee, family

    10/19/2014 9:06:44 PM PDT · 64 of 95
    exDemMom to Jane Long
    Testing my understanding....Are you saying that Duncan was not afflicted until he was diagnosed?

    Ebola is generally considered to be contagious once symptoms appear. As the disease progresses, it becomes more contagious. Duncan was infected and contagious at the time he was admitted to the hospital. Samples were taken for testing, but test results were not received until two days later. According to the timelines, the nurses were not using proper PPE until he was officially diagnosed.

    They (supposedly) lived in close quarters (apartment) for close to a week. I’d say that’s close and prolonged.

    Also, I remember reading reports stating he’d slept in all of the beds. I imagine he would’ve used all (both, at most) bathrooms, too. Where did the others sleep, and use the bathroom?

    Again....prolonged and close contact.

    Prolonged close contact is spending time within 3 feet of the patient. Typically, this happens when a family member begins caring for the patient--washing, feeding, etc. He might have slept in the beds, but unless he was vomiting or having diarrhea in the beds, he is unlikely to have left any infectious bodily fluids in them. The toilets--it is possible that family members were avoiding using the same toilet. Or that they were bleaching everything.

    In Africa, it is common for children who live in the same house as people who get and die from Ebola to not catch the disease themselves, because they do not have close contact with the patients.

  • No illness detected in Ebola patient's fiancee, family

    10/19/2014 8:38:53 PM PDT · 60 of 95
    exDemMom to goodwithagun
    Can we sue the CDC, or are they immune (pun intended) from law suits?

    Sue the CDC for what, exactly? For the fact that the hospital did not use CDC guidelines and a couple of nurses got sick? The CDC only puts out the recommendations--it expects local hospitals to be mature enough to follow them.

  • No illness detected in Ebola patient's fiancee, family

    10/19/2014 8:36:44 PM PDT · 58 of 95
    exDemMom to dandiegirl
    I don’t believe it. Clay Jenkins is covering his a%&. It just doesn’t seem possible that a nurse in full hazmat gets it and they don’t. Something fishy going on.

    According to timelines that I have seen, the nurses were not using full PPE until after the patient was definitively diagnosed. So, for two days, they were caring for him while he became progressively more infectious. Hospital guidelines *should* be for full PPE to be used until the disease is diagnosed; at that time, PPE use can be scaled down if the diagnosis warrants doing so.

  • No illness detected in Ebola patient's fiancee, family

    10/19/2014 8:33:19 PM PDT · 56 of 95
    exDemMom to jocon307
    And while it may be that his family, at least those ones who actually hail from Liberia might have some natural resistance or even immunity, I’m not even sure how or if that could be determined.

    If they have immunity, an antibody titer can be measured from their blood. Many people in Africa have anti-Ebola antibodies in their blood, indicating that they are probably immune.

  • No illness detected in Ebola patient's fiancee, family

    10/19/2014 8:30:49 PM PDT · 54 of 95
    exDemMom to Jane Long
    Louise Troh....says she and her family are showing no signs of the deadly disease after a 21-day quarantine.

    Why is that?

    That is because Ebola is not an airborne disease, but is spread by prolonged close contact. None of the family were in prolonged close contact with the index case.

    The two nurses who got sick were apparently taking care of him without using proper PPE until he was diagnosed. By then, they had been exposed for 2 days. Nurses sometimes have very close contact with patients. There is no excuse for them not wearing proper PPE; that should be standard hospital procedure for dealing with any patient with an unknown disease.

  • US Army Handbook From 2011 Confirms Airborne Ebola Cases

    10/19/2014 8:13:17 PM PDT · 29 of 33
    exDemMom to RummyChick
    I really want to hear about you going into a room with an Ebola patient in close proximity WITH NO PROTECTION

    What’s the documentation of you putting your life and your family’s life at risk?

    Excuse me, why do you say such a rude thing?

    I pointed out that Ebola is not airborne and that it is spread by close contact. Nowhere did I say that people should not use proper PPE when dealing with Ebola.

    Unlike you, I would NEVER suggest that anyone spend prolonged time in the vicinity of someone with a highly infectious and deadly disease without using appropriate PPE. I teach people safety and how to avoid getting infected in the laboratory setting--what have YOU done to help people avoid disease lately?

  • Ebola crisis: Spanish nurse tests negative for virus

    10/19/2014 3:37:47 PM PDT · 7 of 24
    exDemMom to Straight Vermonter

    That is very good news.

    I hope the needless loss of her dog is not too devastating, though.

  • Ebola Scare Sends Caribbean Cruise Ship Back Home ["A Journey To Remember"!]

    10/19/2014 1:07:06 PM PDT · 96 of 96
    exDemMom to GOPJ
    Do you think Ebola in Africa IS totally different than Ebola in the United States? Or do you think it's the same virus that infects and kills in the same manner?

    The virus is the same, but the culture and infrastructure are completely different.

    If a tornado is observed to cause little property damage when it sweeps through fields, but causes massive damage and loss of life when it sweeps through a residential area, the difference is not in the destructive power of the tornado. The difference is in the area where the tornado appears.

    Those countries where the Ebola outbreak keeps on going are all countries that have been devastated by years of civil war. They have poor infrastructure, and terribly inadequate healthcare. Even in hospitals, most nursing care is provided by family members. They have burial customs that involve washing and touching the dead. The conditions in those countries essentially create perfect storms for Ebola to continue infecting people.

    Here in the US, the cultural and infrastructural conditions that lead to continued transmission of the disease in Africa do not exist. Now, there *is* a problem in that the hospital in Dallas was not ready for this--completely inexcusable. Other hospitals have dealt with Ebola-like diseases without a single secondary transmission of the disease. We know how to control infection and stamp out outbreaks; we do this all the time, and the CDC is a crucial part of this effort.

  • US Army Handbook From 2011 Confirms Airborne Ebola Cases

    10/19/2014 12:54:29 PM PDT · 26 of 33
    exDemMom to reasonisfaith
    To evaluate CDC statements, you must see both the science and the politics, and be able to distinguish the relative role of each.

    I have not seen Friedan say anything inaccurate about Ebola. Everything he has said is consistent with the scientific literature.

    As far as I can tell, he is being criticized for NOT saying all the bilge that people think they know about Ebola as a result of reading The Hot Zone, or Outbreak, or one of the other highly sensationalized but woefully inaccurate dramatizations of a disease outbreak. Plus, he is a horrible public speaker, which does not help.

  • Ebola-linked cruise ship passenger cleared; hospital apologizes for mistakes

    10/19/2014 12:11:44 PM PDT · 24 of 25
    exDemMom to kaila
    This hospital has shown its incompetence in dealing with Ebola.

    You're right. That hospital was horribly incompetent, from the time they turned away a patient reporting recent arrival from Liberia, through the time when he was cared for without the proper PPE being used until the disease was verified two days later.

    How do you know that the outside of the vial was not contaminated?

    In my experience working as a researcher and having frequent visits to various hospital diagnostic labs, I have *never* seen a case where a sample was handed over to someone with bare hands without any consideration that the sample might have pathogen on it. You don't have to be concerned about Ebola to want to avoid a host of bloodborne pathogens that could be in patient samples--hepatitis being the major concern, but there are others. When I used to go to the hospital diagnostic lab to pick up samples, or when a gynecologist would bring patient samples to the research lab, they were *always* sealed in a plastic bag. And I would handle them with gloves on.

    If someone is NOT taking standard infection control measures, there is a BIG problem. It is not the CDC's problem--this one goes to the hospital accreditation authority (someone told me it's not JCAHO any more), in not inspecting the hospitals in such a way as to verify that they are ready and able to handle exotic infectious disease cases. You shouldn't have to know what the disease is before taking precautions against it. You should be taking the most stringent precautions *until* you know what the disease is, then downgrade the precautions if the disease diagnosis warrants it.

    The hospital messed up, big time. And, like always, when someone messes up because they weren't following established procedures and protocols that work when used, the procedures and protocols will be made more onerous and strict, creating more of a burden on those who must work under those standards without having a significant effect on people who don't bother sticking to the standards.

    Sorry for the tirade, but this is really a sore spot for me.

  • US Army Handbook From 2011 Confirms Airborne Ebola Cases

    10/19/2014 11:10:22 AM PDT · 24 of 33
    exDemMom to reasonisfaith
    What reason do we have to trust what the CDC says?

    Because the CDC is consulting with the people who have been doing the Ebola research and going to Africa to contain outbreaks for the last 40 years. Plus, the CDC is familiar with the entire body of literature written by those same researchers and health care workers.

    Being very familiar with the research myself, it's easy enough for me to verify what the CDC (or anyone else) says. So far, the CDC has been accurate--armchair pundits, not so much.

  • US Army Handbook From 2011 Confirms Airborne Ebola Cases

    10/19/2014 10:55:00 AM PDT · 22 of 33
    exDemMom to I want the USA back
    I realized two weeks ago that it could be carried in the air, in tiny droplets that are exhaled. That’s airborne.

    Are you talking about Ebola, or influenza?

    The first requirement for a disease to spread through aerosols is that it affect the respiratory system. Ebola is a bloodborne pathogen. The second requirement is that the disease is stable in the environment--Ebola is not. The third requirement is that the virus is small enough to fit into the tiny droplets. Ebola is big.

    Influenza is (probably) transmissible by aerosols, it is respiratory, and it can survive for hours in the environment. It kills thousands of Americans every year, up to 50,000 some years. Are you worried about influenza?

  • US Army Handbook From 2011 Confirms Airborne Ebola Cases

    10/19/2014 10:51:21 AM PDT · 21 of 33
    exDemMom to RummyChick

    The USAMRIID BlueBook does NOT confirm natural aerosol transmission of Ebola virus. The fact that infection can occur in a highly artificial laboratory environment using mechanically generated aerosols sprayed directly into animals’ faces does NOT establish that aerosols can be generated in the respiratory tract during the course of a natural infection. Some hospital procedures can generate aerosols or droplets (physician colleagues tell me that droplets are generated, not aerosols)—but, again, that is not something that we would ever see outside of a health care facility.

    **IF** you happened to be sitting on a bus next to someone with Ebola, and **IF** that person happened to sneeze on you (Ebola does not cause sneezing, but something else could make them sneeze) and **IF** their snot contained blood, then you possibly could get Ebola. And that would be a direct transmission, not aerosol. That is why the CDC guidelines say that a high-risk contact is someone who has spent a prolonged period of time within 3 feet of an Ebola patient.

    I am genuinely curious about why people want so desperately for Ebola to be an airborne disease. Despite the many efforts of the CDC, WHO, etc., to inform people how Ebola is actually spread, and how to protect oneself (stay away from Ebola patients, DOH)—people still want to believe that Ebola is airborne, and seem upset that no one who is familiar with the disease will ever say that it is. Why? This makes no sense to me.

    If Ebola transmitted naturally by an aerosol route, we’d currently be picking up the pieces following a worldwide pandemic with millions or hundreds of millions of deaths. That is assuming that it would have the same CFR if it were a respiratory disease, which is a big assumption. Even in the cities where Ebola continues to spread—places with rather high population densities—Ebola has not spread to engulf the entire city (as it would have already done if it were highly contagious), but has affected relatively few people.

    There is, however, a disease that is thought to transmit by aerosols, and causes thousands of deaths in the US alone every year. It’s called influenza. People who desperately want to be scared of an airborne disease have a perfect candidate right there. This year, the predominate strain circulating is H3N2—which usually causes a more severe flu season with higher numbers of deaths. I know, influenza is a killer but it is a familiar killer, so it is not scary.

  • Ebola-linked cruise ship passenger cleared; hospital apologizes for mistakes

    10/19/2014 7:16:05 AM PDT · 6 of 25
    exDemMom to palmer
    It is no different in any way from strip searching grandmothers at the airport while letting the sleeper terrorist through with a cursory glance.

    Exactly. I am a grandmother, and I am frisked about 50% of the time when I fly. At 5'3 and 130 pounds, I must look really dangerous.

  • Fruit bats and Ebola, but why?

    10/19/2014 7:12:05 AM PDT · 5 of 35
    exDemMom to dennisw

    Bats seriously creep me out. I do recognize their role in keeping the insect population in check, but they carry so many diseases.

  • New York Times: 'Seething' Obama Has Been Let Down by CDC

    10/19/2014 7:01:22 AM PDT · 66 of 114
    exDemMom to machogirl

    I’ve never read one of her books, and I do not foresee ever doing so.

    The synopsis of that movie showed me that it is pure hooey. The disease is loosely based on the Ebola and Marburg viruses, and just about everything in the movie has no basis in reality.

    My husband and son don’t like to have me in the same room when they watch “science” based fiction—as soon as the scientific idiocies start, I begin to yell at the TV. “That’s completely wrong, you idiots! Is it too much trouble for you writers to go to UCLA or someplace and get real scientists to review your scripts?”

  • Ebola Scare Sends Caribbean Cruise Ship Back Home ["A Journey To Remember"!]

    10/19/2014 6:56:24 AM PDT · 94 of 96
    exDemMom to GOPJ
    IF we stop flights out of Africa that's like 'quarantining them, right? So you would be OK with that... They don't have the right to come here and infect us... right?

    No. I'm for targeted quarantines--keeping people who are known case contacts from flying. And I'm for airport screenings and temperature checks to keep potentially infected people from flying. And for closing our southern border where a whole lot of people with diseases that have significantly more potential to cause widespread illness and death than Ebola are walking right in.

    A disease that causes high mortality but is minimally contagious is not as much of a public health issue as a disease that is highly contagious and causes low mortality. Or, in simple language, Ebola is not a public health threat; influenza is. So are measles, polio, Chagas disease, etc.

  • Ebola-linked cruise ship passenger cleared; hospital apologizes for mistakes

    10/19/2014 6:49:06 AM PDT · 3 of 25
    exDemMom to SeekAndFind

    What about ruining this woman’s vacation—impacting the vacations of everyone on that ship—and needlessly causing a whole lot of expensive uproar with these overreactions?

    Just because someone works in a lab where samples are processed does NOT mean they are a risk of infection! People routinely process samples in labs without getting infections—in fact, lab-acquired infections are rare enough to be newsworthy when they occur.

    This is what happens when hysteria, not reason, takes over.

  • New York Times: 'Seething' Obama Has Been Let Down by CDC

    10/19/2014 6:45:16 AM PDT · 47 of 114
    exDemMom to PROCON
    ...or his CDC proving itself so inept you wonder if anyone there has even bothered to see the movie "Outbreak"...

    Oh, dear. I should hope no one is thinking that a Hollywood movie is indicative of how the CDC should operate. Hollywood movies are pure entertainment, and have little or nothing to do with reality.

    After reading the synopsis of Outbreak on Wikipedia, I can see how people are upset with the CDC, government, etc., if they think there is anything resembling reality in that movie. It no more resembles reality than Alice in Wonderland does.

  • We all pay the price for climate hysteria as alarmist predictions fail

    10/19/2014 6:35:38 AM PDT · 2 of 11
    exDemMom to Oldeconomybuyer

    That sign is so illustrative of the lack of critical thought processes in leftists.

    No matter what the problem is, they don’t want to have to study it and come up with plausible solutions: they just want to ram more socialism down our throats. They don’t even have an explanation of how the socialism is supposed to fix the problem. They have utter faith that it will.

    Climate change is a feature of the earth, and humans are unlikely to ever be able to control it. Yet imposing socialist dictatorships on every free person in the world is supposed to somehow stabilize the weather? Can anyone explain how socialism is supposed to affect the earth’s atmosphere in such a way that climate change stops? And since all life evolved in a situation of constant climate change, is stable climate something we really want?

  • What's in that lunch? Students in Huntsville, Madison still leery of healthier school meals

    10/19/2014 6:27:17 AM PDT · 2 of 13
    exDemMom to Oldeconomybuyer

    Making food taste bland is always the goal of “health food” fanatics. The worse food tastes, the more healthy it is!

    I am not certain that there is solid scientific data supporting low-fat, low-salt food. I believe a major study recently found that the overall death rate is higher in a group eating a low-salt diet, as compared with the normal-salt group. There is a strong physiological need for salt, and people all over the world eat about the same amount of salt. There is absolutely no reason to think that there would be a health benefit to limiting salt consumption below the amount that people spontaneously eat. We have a need for fat, too. I wonder if eating low-fat causes people to overeat to try to get the fat they need.

    I wonder how much rebound obesity there is, resulting from kids absolutely porking out when they get home from school, still hungry after refusing to eat the bland options provided at school.

    The article noted that many kids are now bringing lunches. That is good.

  • Ebola antiviral treatment options

    10/19/2014 6:15:27 AM PDT · 9 of 20
    exDemMom to Mr170IQ
    However, it is not FDA approved, so getting it in the USA isn't easy.

    Favipiravir is currently in phase 3 trials for treatment of influenza. In Japan, it is approved for use for influenza. It most certainly can be used under the compassionate use exemption for experimental drugs. That is how they managed to get permission to try brincidofovir to treat Mr. Duncan.

    I do not think that brincidofovir was a good choice to try, since it was developed to be a DNA virus inhibitor, and is not approved for clinical use anywhere in the world.

    Anyway, thanks for posting this. The misspellings in the article drive me nuts, but the information is good.

  • Ebola: Is bushmeat behind the outbreak?

    10/19/2014 5:59:41 AM PDT · 54 of 55
    And apes and monkeys are so genetically close to humans that we should expect to get diseases from them.

    Apes and monkeys carry a form of herpes that causes almost no discomfort for the monkeys but is highly lethal to humans (68% case fatality rate). Luckily, we do not catch this virus easily.

    Most emerging pathogens are zoonoses. They circulate in their animal host, often without causing much problem at all, but then get into humans and result in severe, often fatal, disease.

  • Ebola: Is bushmeat behind the outbreak?

    10/18/2014 8:03:17 PM PDT · 28 of 55
    exDemMom to vetvetdoug
    Pork is easy to raise and is healthy....but they are Moose Limbs.

    Actually, pork could be a problem. Pigs do get Ebola, and bats often live near pig farms.

  • Hysteria over Ebola fuels racism, while the real disease is capitalism

    10/18/2014 6:45:35 PM PDT · 34 of 35
    exDemMom to Pearls Before Swine
    We'll know soon. If there's any statistical disparity in the immunity of whites and blacks to the virus, than yes, it's racist. The same reasoning is used now by our DOJ to force affirmative action in many areas--lending, college admissions, lowered civil service scores for qualification and promotion. It's enough to make you think that Ebola hasn't read "The Bell Curve."


    There are a number of reasons Ebola could kill more African blacks than American whites.

    There could be genetic differences in our immune systems. Our ancestors survived the Black Death; theirs did not. That caused European populations to have certain immune protein variants that are rare in other populations.

    Or it could just be the living conditions. They have a lot of disease and filth; their immune systems are constantly being challenged with really nasty stuff. So, when they get Ebola and they already have AIDS and/or malaria, they do not have the ability to fight off yet another disease.

  • Ebola Scare Sends Caribbean Cruise Ship Back Home ["A Journey To Remember"!]

    10/18/2014 6:35:31 PM PDT · 91 of 96
    exDemMom to GOPJ
    Duncan’s family is under armed guard - how many others are under armed guard? How do you feel about this?

    From the article:

    The unusual confinement order was imposed after the family failed to comply with a request not to leave their apartment, Jenkins said.

    I don't typically go around "feeling" about things, since I'm far too logical to have patience with feelings. That said, I have no problem with enforcing a quarantine if people will not voluntarily comply with the terms of the quarantine themselves. I have been criticized many times by libertarian FReepers for stating that I fully support quarantine and other measures that subjugate individual freedom in favor of protecting public health.

    Even though I have only seen evidence that one of Duncan's family members was a high-risk contact, I still think that it is wise to take precautions. Contact tracing and quarantine are old methods, but they still work to control infectious disease outbreaks. Ultimately, they are the measures that will bring Ebola under control in Africa. Thank goodness our military is stepping in to help with this.

  • Hysteria over Ebola fuels racism, while the real disease is capitalism

    10/18/2014 2:34:12 PM PDT · 15 of 35
    exDemMom to 2ndDivisionVet
    Duncan’s family, stricken with grief over his death, has already questioned the fact that the only person to die of Ebola on U.S. soil so far is a black man.

    Yep, Ebola is racist. The question is, how does it know which patients are black and which are white? Well, that doesn't matter, we need to work on making Ebola culturally aware.

  • Ebola Scare Sends Caribbean Cruise Ship Back Home ["A Journey To Remember"!]

    10/18/2014 2:28:49 PM PDT · 87 of 96
    exDemMom to GOPJ
    They’re planning on rotating the troops who have been over there... and quite possibly are infected ... back to the United States. I don’t believe there will be a 21 day waiting period. Have you heard anything about that?

    And what did you think of the link I sent...

    There is no reason for them to be put into quarantine unless there has been an exposure event. From what I understand, they are there to provide support. The people who will be providing care are actual medical personnel who have a considerable amount of training in working in PPE.

    The four hours training given to the soldiers is probably more than enough, given their support role. The main thing is to sensitize them so that they won't do anything like try to help someone who is clearly sick without having the proper PPE on hand.

    The link you sent is fine...

  • Ebola Scare Sends Caribbean Cruise Ship Back Home ["A Journey To Remember"!]

    10/18/2014 1:44:06 PM PDT · 85 of 96
    exDemMom to GOPJ
    Where do you get your information from exDem

    I get information from a variety of places, like the links to Africom that I posted. All of my information on the virus itself comes from scientific publications written by the people doing the research.

  • Ebola Scare Sends Caribbean Cruise Ship Back Home ["A Journey To Remember"!]

    10/18/2014 1:34:02 PM PDT · 84 of 96
    exDemMom to Figment

    Absolutely. I read somewhere that it is common for people to die while on a cruise—about 200 deaths per year. In this climate, this rather common event will no doubt spark massive panic.

  • Ebola Scare Sends Caribbean Cruise Ship Back Home ["A Journey To Remember"!]

    10/18/2014 1:28:59 PM PDT · 83 of 96
    exDemMom to wrench
    There to date has not been an outbreak that has killed this many this fast in the history of ebola.

    This is a new strain and is different as per the real front line folks fighting this, not the political hacks wearing white smocks in the US

    Right. And a tornado that causes massive death and destruction going through a residential neighborhood *must* be a different kind of tornado than the one that hit a mile away and only caused damage to a corn field, because it causes so much damage.

    Ebola has never reached a major population center before, so the chain of transmission is more difficult to break. The virus itself has not changed.

    This is NOT a new strain of Ebola. As I said before, if this had been a new strain, we would have known about it in March, when the outbreak was first identified as Ebola. We have sequence data from this outbreak--it is very clear from the virus itself that it is Ebola Zaire. For it to be a different strain, its sequence would be at least 30% different than any known Ebola--but it isn't. It is 98.5% exactly the same as Ebola Zaire circulating around DRC. That small 1.5% difference in sequence does not mean very much; all viruses mutate during the course of an infection and tend to be slightly different in different geographical areas. While analyzing those mutations helps to determine where the virus came from and establish whether the outbreak was caused by a single introduction event or multiple events, it does not mean that the virus is new or has characteristics never before seen in Ebola.

    I do not know of any political hacks wearing white smocks. The politicians are all getting educated on Ebola by the actual scientists and physicians who are familiar with the virus and know the science about it.

  • Ebola Scare Sends Caribbean Cruise Ship Back Home ["A Journey To Remember"!]

    10/18/2014 7:12:02 AM PDT · 69 of 96
    exDemMom to wrench
    Very nice excwept this outbreak is very different than anything in the last 40 years.

    No, the characteristics of the outbreak mirror just about every other outbreak (of Ebola AND Marburg) in the last 40 years. The only difference is that this time, the virus got into some populated areas.

    If a tornado sweeps through a few corn fields, the damage is minimal. But if a tornado sweeps through a residential area, the damage and loss of life can be devastating. The difference in these cases is not that tornadoes have changed, but that they appeared in different areas. The Ebola virus is like that.

    What you are listring is consensus, not settled science., Consensus is opinion, nothing more. And when these opinions are presented by gov’t employees that risk losing their income and retirement should thy disagree with their boss, these opinions are worth less than what th MSM offers every day.

    What I listed is the synopsis of decades of publications on the subject of Ebola, and I have read hundreds of them. It is not a "consensus", and the term "settled science" is rather misleading. No science is ever settled, but when a preponderance of the evidence shows the same thing, that is as close to "settled" as science ever gets.

    I also do not know of any case where a scientist is in danger of losing his/her income or retirement benefits by disagreeing with their "boss" (I guess you mean Obama by that). The boss, if he is not a scientist, is being told what the science actually says. If he can't relay that properly, that is a different issue--the scientists did not explain well, the boss did not understand, whatever.

    Also, the WHO and the CDC are big Global Warming activists. Yet another “consensus” that is no where near any kind of settled science.

    Really? Ebola has what, exactly, to do with "global warming"? In fact, what does any infectious disease have to do with "global warming"? Are you aware that very few, if any, "global warming" advocate scientists work for the WHO or the CDC? People who work for WHO or CDC are scientists--physicians, molecular biologists, epidemiologists, etc.--whose areas of study do not include "global warming."

    The CDC is a political organization no different then the Democratic Party, they long ago ceased being a scientific research organization: global warming, gun control, fat lesbians, school lunches; have been occupying them lately, none of which have anything to do with Disease Control.

    I would completely agree that the political issues have no business being pushed onto the CDC. Unfortunately, the fact that politicians (especially leftists) use the CDC to try to further their own agendas is really counterproductive and leads to erosion of trust in the CDC's ability to do its mission. However, there are still very good scientists at the CDC--I would not balk at working there myself--and it plays a crucial role in identifying and controlling disease outbreaks all over the country. I suggest reading the CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report to get an idea of the disease and health issues that CDC routinely deals with. I read it every week, or I used to, before Ebola came around.

  • Majority of Americans believe Ebola spreads through air: poll

    10/18/2014 6:46:33 AM PDT · 41 of 43
    exDemMom to FlingWingFlyer
    ...despite the fact that the World Health Organization regards that type of transmission as unlikely.

    Unlikely? I thought it was not possible!

    "Unlikely" is a term that scientists use so as to avoid using the term "impossible." Saying something is "unlikely" rather than "impossible" is a way for scientists to avoid being wrong on something.

    Scientist: It is impossible for pigs to fly.
    Ordinary person: Then what's that animal? It sure looks like a flying pig to me.
    Scientist: Dang! I was wrong! [turns in scientific credentials]


    Scientist: It is unlikely for pigs to fly.
    Ordinary person: Well, isn't that a winged pig flying right over there?
    Scientist: Well, I said it was unlikely, not impossible!

  • Majority of Americans believe Ebola spreads through air: poll

    10/18/2014 6:20:19 AM PDT · 40 of 43
    exDemMom to Red in Blue PA

    A majority of people learned everything they know about Ebola from The Hot Zone.

    If Ebola could transmit by aerosols from patients, Duncan’s entire family would have been infected by know, as well as many of the people who were in the ER the first time he showed up and was sent home.

    Also, if Ebola were airborne, it would have been all over Africa by now, and probably most of the rest of the world, too. Even Australia might not be spared (due to plane travel). This outbreak has been going on for 10 months now, which is more than enough time for an aerosol transmitted disease to spread worldwide. Influenza goes pretty quickly...

  • Ebola Scare Sends Caribbean Cruise Ship Back Home ["A Journey To Remember"!]

    10/18/2014 6:14:46 AM PDT · 57 of 96
    exDemMom to wrench
    Are you serious? Even the CDC on their official statements say they aren't entirely sure how it is transmitted.

    The CDC, the WHO, the researchers who actually research Ebola, and the healthcare personnel who travel to outbreak areas are all pretty clear on how people get Ebola--through direct close contact. This outbreak is no different. People are catching Ebola through direct close contact with sick people or corpses. The nurses in Dallas caught Ebola by caring for an Ebola patient for two days without adequate PPE. The transmission pattern is known.

    The largest Ebola outbreak in the US (the Reston outbreak) is still not understood, and they have been studying that outbreak for how many years?

    I don't know that anyone is bothering to study that any more. Investigators determined a long time ago that the conditions in that facility were deplorable, and there was plenty of opportunity for virus to be physically carried all over that facility. In controlled conditions, with better sanitation, monkeys do not spread Reston to each other if they are physically separated.

    The CDC has been playing word games betwen “airborne” and “aerosol” transmission. The difference to the end user is the difference between getting shot by a 20 gauge vs a 12 gauge shotgun.

    Airborne is the method by which aerosols transmit. Essentially, airborne and aerosol are the same thing. Now, there *is* a significant difference between aerosol and droplet transmission, and some non-scientists think that droplet transmission is the same as airborne because droplets do splash up into the air. But they are not the same--droplets are a form of direct contact.

    Airborne or aerosol transmission occurs without physical contact and at a distance of greater than 3 feet.

    And now the CDC is admitting there is evidence of AIRBORNE transmission.

    I have never seen the CDC "admit" to any such thing. Here is the CDC link on transmission of Ebola. And here is a scientific document written on transmission. The scientific document notes that under artificial conditions, Ebola can be aerosolized, but those conditions are nothing like any natural setting. It also notes that many studies might superficially show aerosol transmission, but that more careful examination of the evidence in those studies reveals that they could not demonstrate aerosol transmission and that other mechanisms of transmission were responsible.

    And what happened in the last 40 years is interesting, but in no way lays a course for fighting today's outbreak. Much like th best the CDC can do with annual flu vaccines is GUESS what might go around this year. And that guess is wrong over 60% of the time year to year. We can not afford guessing, this disease is 140 times more deadly than the flu.

    The WHO has to look at data about current circulating influenza strains and try to make an educated guess about what WILL circulate some 9 months in the future. It's a lot like trying to guess the weather a month from now, based on the current weather and historical data. If you have a better way of determining which flu strains will be dominant next year, please publish your results so that we can have better flu vaccines.

    Ebola, however, is not the flu. Unlike flu, its genes are all contained on a single strand of genetic material (flu has 8 separate pieces of genetic material), so Ebola cannot swap genes with similar viruses the way influenza does. So Ebola today is pretty much like Ebola 40 years ago, and the behavior of Ebola--and Marburg, which is very similar--is well-known.

    Even in the case of influenza, the course of the disease is similar no matter which flu virus is involved. The only time influenza viruses behave differently is when they are bird flu viruses.

    You have seen that there is strong suspicion that is a new strain, right?

    I've read all of the scientific publications on this outbreak, and have seen that Ebola Zaire is responsible for this outbreak. If a new strain of Ebola were responsible, we would have known it in March. The few mutations that have been documented are expected, for a number of reasons. This virus is 98.5% identical to Ebola Zaire from the DRC, making it Ebola Zaire by definition.

  • Ebola Scare Sends Caribbean Cruise Ship Back Home ["A Journey To Remember"!]

    10/18/2014 5:40:13 AM PDT · 55 of 96
    exDemMom to GOPJ
    Trust breaks down when the same government that oversees labs send soldiers into ebola hot zones with 4 hours of training and a bottle of hand sanitizer.

    You clearly do not know the requirements to work in a lab, and your opinion of our military's competence is obviously low.

    How about informing yourself of the preparations our military is making for the Ebola fight:

    Overview of the Ebola fight.

    Pentagon briefing on Ebola operation.

    FYI, the military has been active in the Ebola fight ever since it was first identified, decades ago. Just as our military is active in a lot of other infectious disease fights: AIDS, monkeypox, cholera, etc. The military has other roles than enforcement of foreign policy.

    Would you rather the military go in now and contain this threat while it is still in Africa, or would you rather no one do anything to contain the thread, and let it spread across Africa, into Europe and Asia, until it is impossible to keep it from spreading into the Americas? Personally, I'd rather see it contained.

    Or allows plane loads of eloba carriers into the country.

    Bringing infected Americans home for treatment is hardly "allowing plane loads of eloba carriers" into the country. It's not like there are tons of Africans traveling outside of Africa; most countries are screening passengers from Africa. Screening for infectious disease is not unusual at airports.

  • Ebola Scare Sends Caribbean Cruise Ship Back Home ["A Journey To Remember"!]

    10/18/2014 5:00:30 AM PDT · 47 of 96
    exDemMom to wrench
    Just look at the posters who have shown up here early this morning, and some newbies as well.

    The 0bama coverup team is in full court press mode right now, and the old lies are being told over and over again to make them sound familiar. Lots of “experts” with no more medical creds than the new 0bolo Czar.

    I'm not sure what these "old lies" are. Ebola is a biological organism, not some supernatural entity--it is subject to the same laws of physics that control all natural things. We've known how Ebola spreads for the last 40 years, and we've seen the same pattern of spread here--direct or close contact for prolonged periods of time (like the nurses, who weren't even wearing PPE for the first couple of days). These are not "lies" being told over and over. These are the facts that must be repeated until people get over the misinformation they "learned" about Ebola when they read The Hot Zone.

    I do not like that some political hack was appointed Ebola Czar. Unless he works VERY closely with the medical people, he's quite likely to say something utterly stupid and contribute to the misinformation about Ebola.

    Some of us have been following the research on Ebola since LONG before it entered the public spotlight. I've never read The Hot Zone--don't care to, either.

  • Ebola Scare Sends Caribbean Cruise Ship Back Home ["A Journey To Remember"!]

    10/18/2014 4:49:38 AM PDT · 45 of 96
    exDemMom to GOPJ
    If a person works in a lab dealing with ebola - AND doesn’t follow protocols - yeah - they’re a threat. Of course that doesn’t hold a candle to the plane loads of ebola carriers Obama wants to welcome to our country.

    Many labs work with a variety of very dangerous substances, infectious, chemical, and radiological. OSHA and state agencies require a considerable amount of safety training, and often inspect these labs. Various institutions handle this in different ways, but the idea of a lab where safety isn't being pounded into everyone's heads at least monthly is inconceivable to me.

  • Ebola Scare Sends Caribbean Cruise Ship Back Home ["A Journey To Remember"!]

    10/18/2014 3:38:32 AM PDT · 30 of 96
    exDemMom to Steelfish

    Wow... talk about hysterical overreaction to nothing.

    I guess anyone who works in a lab is an epidemic or pandemic waiting to happen.

    Are those of us who work in labs going to have to start wearing biohazard, radiation hazard, carcinogen hazard, etc., signs when we go out in public, so as to warn people that being around us is dangerous?

    This situation is absolutely ludicrous, IMO.

  • Ebola-Handling Healthcare Worker Currently On A Caribbean Cruise Ship

    10/18/2014 3:30:48 AM PDT · 29 of 29
    exDemMom to M-cubed
    lol...and your FR name is?.....Get it yet??

    No offense..but some of us need help on the front lines...

    I am not sure what your point is.

    I am a medical researcher. I know what kinds of PPE need to be worn in the lab; I've lectured many times on proper PPE and hand hygiene.

    My comment was to highlight the fact that if someone is working in a lab without using the proper PPE, there is a serious breech of protocol.

    People only get infections in the lab if they are careless or not using the proper PPE. Handling an infectious sample that is contained within a sample tube while wearing proper PPE does NOT put a lab worker at risk of catching a disease.

    What I see described in the article is a lot of irrational overreaction to a non-exposure. I can think of a lot of people--Ebola researchers--who would never be allowed out in public if handling samples in sealed packages made them a risk for transmitting Ebola.

  • 'Ebola suits' selling well at local health, nutrition store

    10/18/2014 3:15:42 AM PDT · 18 of 32
    exDemMom to 2ndDivisionVet

    I have been thinking of buying materials (felt, yarn) to make anatomically correct Ebola viruses. One of my friends suggested that I could sell them along with those Ebola PPE kits, and I would make a fortune.

  • NY Times reveals secrets of WMD cover-up in Iraq

    10/17/2014 5:25:28 PM PDT · 222 of 224
    exDemMom to xzins

    Well, of course. I remember how every report of finding chemical weapons in Iraq during the invasion was quickly dismissed by the media for some flimsy reason or another, all so that they could repeat their mantra that Iraq had no WMD. But now that they’ve done incalculable damage to President Bush and the country, it’s okay to tell the truth.

    Expect them to go back into full lie mode once another Republican president is in office.

  • Ebola-Handling Healthcare Worker Currently On A Caribbean Cruise Ship

    10/17/2014 5:18:57 PM PDT · 26 of 29
    exDemMom to Morgana

    This is ridiculous. I suppose the virus was able to bore little holes through the sample container in order to infect a lab worker?

    I think that a lot of people perceive viruses as some sort of malignant supernatural entity, rather than a biological organism that basically is subject to the same laws of physics as all other organisms.

    I should hope a lab worker is not working in the lab without any PPE.

  • Ebola threat: Our military must be on front line of US fight, not on the sidelines

    10/17/2014 5:08:26 PM PDT · 15 of 137
    exDemMom to xzins
    You said Survive and operate...give an instance when the us military fought in a bio battle

    Historically, the military has always lost more people to infections than to enemy action. Hence, the military has always been on the forefront of the fight against infectious diseases.

    The hospital in Bethesda, Walter Reed, was named after an Army physician who determined that yellow fever is carried by mosquitoes, and instituted mosquito-control measures to protect soldiers from infections.

  • Could YOU be immune to Ebola? Scientists claim some are naturally protected from the virus

    10/17/2014 4:59:37 PM PDT · 43 of 47
    exDemMom to Sir Napsalot
    However, (2) dogs do not develop Ebola symptoms (i.e., asymptomatic), none of the dogs tested showed presence of viral DNA (via PCR testing), and more importantly, nor viral particles can be isolated in the test serum.

    Correction: Ebola is an RNA virus, not a DNA virus. Since it is not a retrovirus, it never uses DNA.

  • Could YOU be immune to Ebola? Scientists claim some are naturally protected from the virus

    10/17/2014 4:56:56 PM PDT · 42 of 47
    exDemMom to Revel

    Since dogs are asymptomatic, they *might* catch a low-level disease, but they most likely are NOT contagious. Anyway, I’m glad this dog was put into quarantine, and not killed like the dog in Spain was.