Free Republic

Thanks for posing this article nickcarraway

I was in moscow at the time of the statement and what the author writes is clearly misleading.

Baltimore Sun(BS) writes:
"When President Vladimir V. Putin met with historians at the Russian State Library in late 2003, he stressed that history textbooks should "cultivate in young people a feeling of pride for one's history and one's country." "

Puting statement [paraphrased]
History textbooks should be honest, and should cultivate a feeling of pride for one's history and one's country.

My conclusions:

1 while quoting part of the sentence, an honest journalistic practice would involve a "..."

2 If the news about russia presented here had a real case they would not have to falsify information like this.

3 such analysis in our media make criticism of Russia (for me) difficult, as the overkill in accusations distort discussion, and giving constructive critisism toward russia starts to support these half-truths in free, yet remarcably in-unison press.

HI Guys.

I saw this thread only in may 2004, and decided to add the information that I have.

I wrote an article on the topic of how ussr has treated it's ex-POWs and returnees upon arrival. It was 12 pages typed and about 10 photographs. Article was written for a very anti-communist paper that accepts anything anti-soviet as good, and anything else as extremely questionable. 90% of the article's materials are primary sources – actual documents, memo’s, and not a historian’s word I chose to believe. Documents came from my research done in Russian archives or documents previously published. Only general statistics I took from studies.

Here is a translation of a paragraph summarizing the issue or troops and civilians returning home. Please note, in Russian “,” and “.” have revered roles in mathematics.

By 1 March 1946 5.352.963 people passed filtration. 1.825.774 of them were ex-pow and 3.527.189 civilians. After filtration 3.259.857 were sent home, 1.055.925 – sent to reserve army units, and 608.095 - were conscripted into work battalions, and only 339.618 handed over to the NKVD. At the same time, there were 89,468 people still in filtration.

Now about the enemy combatants born in USSR and taken by Soviet army or handed over by British and American troops. By Soviet law, and by American and British laws as well, fighting against your army, shooting at your government’s soldiers a most serious offense, and was worthy of a death penalty. Many of the soldiers and their families who were taken captive by the western allies certainly envisaged that scenario. There were many bi USSR amnestied all enemy combatants, substituting their death penalties with a mandatory 6 year resettlement sentence.

I had a document in the article from L. Beria, was dated 26 may 1945, suggesting that the 40 000 troops, enemy combatants with soviet citizenship and 9,000 family members, handed over by the British be sent through the filtration camps, and afterwords settled among some four coal mining plants in Siberia (all in Kuzbas area, including one in the city of Kemerovo) The last line of the document said that checks will be conducted by Smersh and operative officers of NKVD.

I do not know whether that suggestion was taken by the SNK (highest civilian body in USSR) but it, along with statistics up top gives an idea of their fate.

Hi Cronos.

You are right on my reply - to a large part it was responding to my view of our media, and not your points.

-David

I dunno, Chechnya was invaded by the Russian Empire. Perhaps if they got out of there earlier the slamic dimension may not have entered in. Right now, the Russians are foreigners rulign over Chechnya. This isn't any different from the Russians ruling over the Baltic states. The Chechens aren't Russian.

Dear Chronos.

i try to observe rather than raspond, but your chechen story seems to echo so many bad memories that i want to stop on it for a minute.

Do you know the saying: "if you goto a zoo and see a cage labeled tiger and you see an elephant in it - do not believe your eyes"

In Chechnya many people lived through a war, and got to test the idea that a "chechen government" is better than "russian occupation".

Our media, in my opinion went to Chechnya with a preconceived story, as opposed to a see and tell approach.

There was a Russian Duma study that said that in Grozny rallies, where supporters dropped notes into a basket were later called nationwide elections.
Is this true?
Gosduma, a mouthpiece like US congress, said it was. If reporters were in Chechnya to do more than put a Grozny postal stamp on their london/ny/moscow story perhaps they would of checked it and reported to us whether its true or not.

If you believe the reporters covering chechnyan story you may of missed that chechen forces were fighting on both sides of the conflict. Let alone that there was a civil war before Russian soldiers went in Christmas Day 1994.

Chechen militants were mutilating Russian prisoners of war, of which there is video and photo proof. Did it get any coverage? What about the stories of "Russian ethnic cleansing." The latter stories went to press without any sort of checks apparently, as those that were checked were found to be hoaxes or too ambiguous to tell.

I encourage you to refer me to a well documented story of russian cleansing.

:-)

...as long as they don't have a garage sale to dispose of them.

Judging from previous agreements, no plans yet for non-nuclear world.

The Russians have always believed that they could ultimately survive a nuclear exchange and have been working toward that end for decades. They didn't stop when the USSR dissolved, either.

Hello William. Interesting post. What information do you have on russians either making nukes or preparing to survive the nuclear war now?

But at 400 rubles, or about $4, for a package of six, they are expensive to purchase regularly. Abortions are not: A first consultation at a Moscow clinic runs about 200 rubles, under $10. A complete abortion costs 640 rubles, or $27.50.

russian rubles exchange for 30 to 1 for a us dollar. Fluctuation is +/- 2 rubles. This was the case from 1999 to today(2004).

When in Russia and CIS I spend time in the cities (mostly) but visited the countryside too and different regions when time allows. I have not seen these sort of examples period, let alone having them be the norm.

Stereotypes and sensational stories are good business and good attention getters for some. Like the urban legend of gorgeous prostitutes, it hits low at russian women and society.

In my opinion it would be dangerous to form an opinion of Russia based on stories like this one.

i appreciate the html tags william.
have a nice day.
david r.

my posts were not intended as satire.

if you want a monotone rhetoric then consider bypassing my posts.

ignorance is not conservatism or liberalism. ignorance is ignorance.

Thank you for the welcome Dan.

I appreciate the points made on overall responsibilities, coercion issue, overhead needed for enforcement, importance of the right to vote, and in general, an interesting exchange of ideas here. I think they are very important and appropriate.

One thing bothers me though in US politics. When I was studying USSR's late 80s, I remember reading archival transcripts and memos, and one of them was of Gorbatschev (their president) talking to government staff, emphasizing that Soviet political life is still very primitive. Every side feels threatened and wants to neutralize the competition. In his words the west was much more mature and gave example of his visit to Spain. Right, Left, Socialists, Conservatives all in one room, not shouting talking and solving problems.
I could not verify his spain example but found the idea to be a powerful one. I find that people who are openminded in their decision process make choices that are above and beyond.

Are we heading toward this in USA?

With a two party system and 50% of the voters on different parties both of which have groups that do not want to work with opposition...

Not to confuse this with backdoor deals, but sincere listening and common decisions good for the nation and the world.

Should we aim for this? For myself I found the answer and it gave me more peace, optimism and constructive information.

First: When comparing Fascism/Nazism and Communism/Socialism do not leave out the Republic/Capitalism and use an equal mark.Not to see who's better, but to learn something.

Second: I have not studied Franco, or Mussollini's governments closely, but did original research on USSR's 1930s-40s and Nazi Germany. I did so by analyzing actual Private correspondences of ordinary citizens, as well as inner system communiques. Saw how day to day things were approached. Equivalent maybe okay at the glance over level, but once you look at actual life examples, it does not do.

History has lessons for those who study it, openly, without prejudice. While we as humans have a tendency to rashly analyze things.

David R

I appreciate the concern of a runaway train here but feel this idea of children 14+ getting fractioned vote has potential.

Do we adults pay attention to teenage issues? I do not recall any too many skateparks with signs "no skateboarding allowed" on school grounds and parks.

I had the privilege to travel and see different parts of the country and the world as a teenager, including one semester at LA public in mid 90s.

LA had a dismal approach to organized teenage sports when I was there. It was absent at junior-high level, and at high school it resembled college level competition/selection.

Average class was about 30 kids. Largest was about double that and held in an auditorium.

Another point: Are teenagers represented in current issues? Are the Media giants having their rights violated, and pornography falling into the wrong hands the only sides to the p2p story?

Third point: Adult population reacts plenty to commercial glitter, so why the thoughts that adding kids to the voting public would spoil this gene pool?

Those who don't fail are those who don't do anything.
I feel its worth a vote. If it passes and helps our society, good. No, then we learn our lesson and move on.

public opinion is not a fact. It is public opinion.
I think its important not to accept something as legitimate on the grounds that majority says so.

I've been to belarus. saw alternate press. had friends who disliked lukashenko, and saw many reasons where they were doing so out of inclination to show solidarity with the west.

i saw a clear similarity in jabloko opposition in Russia and "anti-lukashenko" crowd. Both - at the office level - readily demean and hurt their respective republics image to gain an advantage in elections.

using human rights as a campaign slogan corrupts the whole principle of looking out for welfare violations. It divides the population and the republic suffers. If these organizations would of been human rights conscious and indeed vassals of the people they want to represent then I see them giving constructive suggestions and working together. Mikhail Gorbatschev's approach to both - those he favored and criticized I see as a positive example of this principle.

I note that only a fraction of bush supporters on the internet voluntarily touch issues outside their passion and patriotism. When the issues are touched, they are perceived as an enemy combatant's rant or replied to in a defensive matter.
Are they?

government spending policy.
bush's environment policy.
veterans benefits.
I want to talk about this for a moment.

Now, unless DoD recognizes the condition and has a study that proves it came from military service no help will be administered at VA Healthcare system. To put in in perspective, "Gulf War" syndrome, in part, the lue gehrig's decease and similar paralyzing conditions were recognized in the DoD study quite recently - in 2004. Gulf war ended in 1991. CSpan had coverage of this when the bill went into effect, I also cite information from an open memo circulated within VA healthcare system this april.

now, all these things are a side note.
important thing is that bush wins and we do not lose our edge.

we are what we think.