Posted on 01/04/2019 8:20:14 AM PST by Salvation
Rest on Flight to Egypt, by Caravaggio (1597)
At Christmas we celebrate the Word becoming Flesh, but what does this mean for us today? Fundamentally, it means that our faith is about things that are tangible. As human beings, we have bodies. We have a soul that is spiritual, but it is joined with a body that is physical and material. Hence, it is never enough for our faith to be only about thoughts, philosophies, concepts, or ideas. Their truth must touch the physical part of who we are. Our faith must become flesh; it has to influence our behavior. If that is not the case, then the Holy Spirit, speaking through John, has something to call us: liars!
Therefore, away with sophistry, rationalizations, and intentions. Our faith must become flesh in the way we act and move. God’s love for us in not just a theory or idea. It is a flesh and blood reality that can be seen, heard, and touched. The Word of God and our faith cannot simply remain on the pages of a book or in the recesses of our intellect. They must leap off the pages of the Bible and the Catechism and become flesh in the way we live our life, in the decisions we make, and in the way we use our body, mind, intellect, and will.
Consider the following passage from the liturgy of the Christmas Octave:
The way we may be sure that we know Jesus is to keep his commandments. Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps his word, the love of God is truly perfected in him. This is the way we may know that we are in union with him: whoever claims to abide in him ought to walk just as he walked (1 John 2:3ff).
Note some teachings that follow from it:
Faith is incarnational. What a practical man John is! Faith is not an abstraction; it is not merely about theories and words on a page. It is about a transformed life; it is about truly loving God and making His commandments manifest in the way we live. It is about loving our neighbor. True faith is incarnational. That is to say, it takes on flesh in our very “body.”
Too many people spout the phrase, “I’ll be with you in spirit.” Perhaps an occasional absence is understandable but after a while the phrase rings hollow. Showing up physically and doing what we say is an essential demonstration of our sincerity. We are body persons and our faith must include a physical, flesh-and-blood dimension.
Keeping the commandments is a sure sign. John said that The way we may be sure that we know Jesus is to keep his commandments. Now be careful of the logic here. The keeping of the commandments is not the cause of faith; it is the fruit of it. It is not the cause of love; it is its fruit.
In Scripture, “knowing” refers to than an intellectual understanding. It refers to deep, intimate, personal experience of the thing or person. It is one thing to know about God; it is quite to “know the Lord.”
In this passage, John is saying that in order to be sure we have deep, intimate, personal experience of God, we must change the way we live. An authentic faith, an authentic knowing of the Lord, will change our behavior in such a way that we keep the commandments as a fruit of that authentic faith and relationship with Him. It means that our faith becomes flesh in us. Theory becomes practice and experience. It changes the way we live and move and have our being.
For a human being, faith cannot be a mere abstraction. In order to be authentic, it must become flesh and blood. In a later passage, John uses the image of walking: This is the way we may know that we are in union with him: whoever claims to abide in him ought to walk just as he walked (1 John 2:6). Although walking is a physical activity, it is also symbolic. The very place we take our body is physical, but it is also indicative of what we value, what we think.
Liars – John went on to say, Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not keep his commandments is a liar. This is strong language! Either we believe and thus keep the commandments, or we are lying about really knowing the Lord and we fail to keep the commandments.
Don’t all of us struggle to keep the commandments fully? John seems so “all or nothing” in his words, but his point is clear. To know the Lord fully is never to sin (cf 1 John 3:9). If we know him imperfectly, we still experience sin. Hence, the more we know him (remember the definition of “know”) the less we sin. If we still sin, it is a sign that we do not know Him enough.
It is not really John who speaks too absolutely; it is we who do so. We say things like “I have faith,” “I am a believer,” “I love the Lord,” and “I know the Lord.” Perhaps we would be more accurate if we said, “I am growing in faith,” “I am striving to be a better believer,” or “I’m learning to love and know the Lord better and better.” If we do not, then we risk lying. Faith is something we grow in.
Many in the Protestant tradition reduce faith to an event such as answering an altar call or accepting Christ as “personal Lord and savior.” We Catholics do it too. Many Catholics think that all they need to do is be baptized; they don’t bother to attend Mass faithfully as time goes on. Others claim to be “loyal” even “devout” Catholics yet dissent from important Church teachings. Faith is about more than membership. It is about the way we walk, the decisions we make.
Without this harmony between faith and action, we live a lie. We lie to ourselves and to others. The bottom line is that if we really come to know the Lord more and more perfectly, we will grow in holiness, keep the commandments, and be of the mind of Christ. We will walk just as Jesus walked and our claim to have faith will be the truth, not a lie.
Faith and works cannot be separated. This passage does not claim that salvation is by works alone. The keeping of the commandments is not the cause of saving or of real faith. Properly understood, the keeping of the commandments is the result of saving faith actively present and working within us. It indicates that the Lord is saving us from sin and its effects.
The Protestant tradition erred in dividing faith and works. In the 16th century, Protestants claimed that we are saved by “faith alone.” Faith is never alone. It always brings effects with it.
Our brains can get in the way here and tempt us to think that just because we can distinguish or divide something in our mind we can do so in reality, but that is not always the case.
Consider, for a moment, a flame. It has the qualities of heat and light. We can separate the two in our mind but not in reality. I could never take a knife and divide the heat of the flame from its light. They are so interrelated as to be one reality. Yes, heat and light in a flame are distinguishable theoretically, but they are always together in reality.
This is how it is with faith and works. Faith and works are distinguishable theoretically, but the works of true faith and faith itself are always together in reality. We are not saved by works alone or by faith alone; they are together. John teaches here that knowing the Lord by living faith is always accompanied by keeping the commandments and walking as Jesus did.
Therefore, faith is incarnational. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, really and physically. Similarly, our own faith must become flesh in us, in our actual behavior.
Enjoy this incarnational Christmas carol:
Verbum caro factum est The Word was made flesh
Porque todos hos salveis. for the salvation of you all.
Y la Virgen le dezia: And the Virgin said unto him:
‘Vida de la vida mia, ‘Life of my life,
Hijo mio, ¿que os haria, what would I [not] do for you, my Son?
Que no tengo en que os echeis?’ Yet I have nothing on which to lay you down.’
O riquezas terrenales, O worldly riches,
¿No dareis unos pañales will you not give some swaddling clothes
A Jesu que entre animals to Jesus who is born among the animals
Es nasçido segun veis? as you can see?
Which refers to what actually appropriates justification, the faith that effects works by the Spirit, versus the merit of works, and of faith being counted for righteousness, and becoming actually becoming good enough in heart and character to enter Heaven, as per so much Catholic teaching.
If you ping a list of Freepers to a thread we might be interested in reading and joining (although being pinged does NOT make it mandatory), why should that be seen as bringing a "gang" to a street fight or as an invitation to "gang up" on someone? Seriously, I think some of these RCs are the equivalent of "snowflakes" of our time - they see every disagreement with their views as PERSONAL attacks and they need to escape to a quiet room to settle their nerves. If they REALLY think that, then as the RM advises, they should stick to their Caucus and Devotional threads and avoid OPEN RF ones. No one is forcing them to read anything. Poor dears!
So, please keep pinging me to threads. I may not always have time to join in but I do read them and respect your knowledge and the efforts you take to document your resources and back up your opinions. God bless you!
Your own Catholic catechism says that you have to do works, oh, excuse me, get ‘merits’ in order to get salvation.
daniel was right; you’re sounding more and more like a Reformer.
No, that is not the "truth of the matter"! That is the accursed gospel of a works-based salvation religion. Yes, we ARE saved by grace through faith but saying "to be in the Messiah explicitly requires one to walk in good works" is where the perversion comes in. If it be by grace then it is no more of works else grace would not BE grace (see Romans 11:6). Making "works" a requirement to be in Christ, to be saved, negates grace. In fact,
there are really only six five of them here on FR and
even those five rarely agree with each others more outlandish claims,
they aren't actually for anything but
they are all against One thing.
You can probably guess what that is.
7
I don’t think anyone has to guess
Praise God for your heart for Truth and fellowship. Disciples invited other disciples in Scripture. To not ping others to new threads may indicate a problem.
But "that we are saved by grace through faith, and to be in the Messiah explicitly requires one to walk in good works" is correct and not contrary to being saved by faith and not by works is we understand it as meaning that believing means obeying, though the effect is not the cause of salvation.
Believers are known by whom they obey, but are saved by believing in whom they obey.
As forgiveness resulted in healing in Mark 2:1-12 (Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?" and thus the terms could be used interchangeably, since healing as the effect of forgiveness when together, so it is promised, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:31) and "being made perfect [in experience, being tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin) he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9)
However, Roman Catholicism teaches that one is not justified by effectual faith being counted for righteousness, but by actually becoming good enough in heart to be with God in this life or RC Purgatory. "By grace" of course.
Oh boo, hoo, hoo! Cry me a river. Everyone is just pickin’ on y’all. Is that it? Please! It’s an OPEN Religion Forum thread. Read up on what to expect on the Religion Moderator’s home page.
I am not the one crying at all,
just stating reality.
If you have thin skin and can’t handle the rough and tumble nature of the FR RF perhaps you should stick to caucus threads.
Get back to me when you can rope in a sixth.
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And yet I’m actually engaging and discussing the topic of this thread with others instead of whining about those who disagree with me. What have you contributed?
Good video about someone becoming a Catholic.
“even those five rarely agree with each others more outlandish claims,
I don’t think you are remotely correct in this claim.
We all follow the principle:
“In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity”
We agree on the essentials. We accept the non-essentials are not necessary for salvation and are often not clear in Scripture, so we disagree in charity.
...
“they aren’t actually for anything but”
Here, I know your statement is false.
We are for Christ, His payment for sin, His Gospel of Grace, eternal life and the assurance of salvation.
.....
“they are all against One thing.”
So true - as Paul was, we are against every false gospel, whether cult, false religion, and especially those tho take the truth and add paganism to it, rendering it a false gospel.
“Good video about someone becoming a Catholic.”
ALWAYS about the Catholic Church and never about Christ.
Here are wonderful testimonies by former catholic priests and nuns who came to saving faith in Christ.
https://carm.org/testimonies-ex-roman-catholic-priests
Aw, what’s the matter? Poor little Catholic can’t stand it when someone uses logic and Scripture to demolish his fake religion?
Perhaps he’s jealous that he only has a cadre of three instead of the five he’s continually whining about.
Ha!
The six five pals "theology" is unstable and absurdly inconsistent its arguements... unconvincing.
When six five pals post blatent falsehoods as fact, discussion is essentially pointless, wouldn't you say?
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Such as?
Put your money where your mouth is and post the links for examples.
“The six five pals “theology” is unstable and absurdly inconsistent its arguements... unconvincing.”
First, I cc’d 6 in addition to myself, so you are in error.
Second, your statement is about your understanding only, which makes sense...
“The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.”
I Cor 2:14
...
“...post blatent falsehoods as fact, discussion is essentially pointless, wouldn’t you say?”
Please post the falsehoods. I’ve not seen any.
Cc: to seven believers
Such as?
Please provide links to the posts that are blatant falsehoods and explain why you think they are.
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