This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies.
|
Locked on 04/27/2018 6:02:15 PM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childish bickering between two posters
|
Skip to comments.
Salvation and Church
OSV.com ^
| 03-14-18
| Msgr. Charles Pope
Posted on 04/21/2018 9:30:28 AM PDT by Salvation
Salvation and Church The teaching of no salvation outside the Church is important and one that must rightly be understood
Msgr. Charles Pope
3/14/2018
Question: I hear the Catholic Church teaches there is no salvation outside the Church. This would seem to condemn most to hell. Or am I missing something? — Name, location withheld
Answer: It is in fact a doctrine of the Church often repeated by the Fathers of the Church and taught formally. However, it must be understood properly.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church has this to say by way of explanation:
“‘Outside the Church there is no Salvation.’ ... Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church ... is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence, they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church” (CCC, Nos. 846-847).
This much is sure: Whoever is in heaven was saved by Jesus Christ in and through his Body the Church. But, as we know, there are many barriers to people fully understanding that the Church is the sole and necessary means for salvation, and thus, simply being outside the Church usually does not alone bring condemnation.
God can and, it would seem, does draw others unto himself in ways not always known to us. All of this can console us and bring an understanding that the teaching “outside the Church there is no salvation” is not understood absolutely.
But this consolation must not be the source of letting our missionary zeal wane. While it is possible to be saved beyond the Church, sacraments and explicit faith in Christ, it is much more difficult. Consider the following teaching from the Second Vatican Council:
“Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. ... But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator (cf. Rom 1:21, 25). Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, ‘Preach the Gospel to every creature’ (Mk 16:16), the Church fosters the missions with care and attention” (Lumen Gentium, No. 16).
And therefore, we see that people often are deceived or let themselves be deceived. So, the fact that people can be saved apart from the Church is not a blank check or presumption that they likely will be saved. It must always be our earnest work to evangelize, for many “prefer the darkness” (see Jn 3:19).
TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; salvation; tickytackytrolls
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 261-280, 281-300, 301-320 ... 681-686 next last
To: metmom
Well, technically none of us “come home” until we die and go to be with the Lord. But certainly we are on the narrow path that leads to that heavenly home when weve accepted Christ and as a result of that Jesus lives inside of us through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit who seals us until the day of redemption.
281
posted on
04/22/2018 1:12:20 PM PDT
by
boatbums
(The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation, but washes you upon the Rock of Ages.)
To: aMorePerfectUnion
Sure I do.
It's all there in black and white for anyone to see which is more then I can say for your secret doctrines that change with each preacher and apparently the wind.
The Nicene Creed I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.
The Ten Commandments: 1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
10.You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.
The Precepts of the Catholic Church: 1. You shall attend Mass on Sundays and on holy days of obligation and rest from servile labor.
We must “sanctify the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord” (Sunday), as well as the principal feast days, known as Catholic holy days of obligation. This requires attending Mass, “and by resting from those works and activities which could impede such a sanctification of these days.”
2. You shall confess your sins at least once a year. We must prepare for the Eucharist by means of the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession). This sacrament “continues Baptism’s work of conversion and forgiveness.”
3. You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the Easter season. This “guarantees as a minimum the reception of the Lord’s Body and Blood in connection with the Paschal feasts, the origin and center of the Christian liturgy.”
4. You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church. "The fourth precept ensures the times of ascesis and penance which prepare us for the liturgical feasts and help us acquire mastery over our instincts and freedom of heart.”
5. You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church. “The fifth precept means that the faithful are obliged to assist with the material needs of the Church, each according to his own ability.”
282
posted on
04/22/2018 1:18:17 PM PDT
by
infool7
(Observe, Orient, Pray, Decide, Act!(it's an OOPDA loop))
To: Luircin
The prohibition against blood was first stated BEFORE the Law, was reiterated IN the Law, and again emphasized by the Holy Spirit at the Council at Jerusalem in Acts 15, when the new covenant was now in effect.
It stands outside the Law.
283
posted on
04/22/2018 1:22:13 PM PDT
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: boatbums
We are now seated with Christ in the heavenly places.
In the spiritual realm, we are already in heaven.
Ephesians 2:4-7 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
284
posted on
04/22/2018 1:23:47 PM PDT
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: infool7
There's no secret doctrines.
It's all there for anyone to see laid out in Scripture.
And it's this easy........
Romans 10:9-13 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame. For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
The gospel is very simple. FAR FAR more simple than Catholicism has made it.
Catholics can't even agree on most of their stuff.
Like, for example, *There is no salvation outside the Catholic church.*
285
posted on
04/22/2018 1:27:21 PM PDT
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: infool7
It’s all there in black and white for anyone to see which is more then I can say for your secret doctrines that change with each preacher and apparently the wind.
1. Still waiting for your tiny minority proof.
2. The Scriptures are in black and white and dont change, as Rome has done countless times.
To: Luircin
The Fathers, Doctors, Saints and Martyrs of the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ Jesus have already spoken to me through the very scriptures you mention that I “could easily use” but if you feel insulted then maybe you should stick to caucus threads since you need a thick skin for the FR religion forum.
287
posted on
04/22/2018 1:29:10 PM PDT
by
infool7
(Observe, Orient, Pray, Decide, Act!(it's an OOPDA loop))
To: daniel1212
That looks like a
288
posted on
04/22/2018 1:29:17 PM PDT
by
boatbums
(The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation, but washes you upon the Rock of Ages.)
To: metmom
For future reference, I like to separate God’s Law from Levitical Law. I mean, they’re both God’s Law, but according to the theology I’ve learned, the Law is every time God says ‘do this.’ And levitical laws are those specifically pointing forward to Jesus’ death and resurrection and so are fulfilled, or those specifically given only to the nation of Israel.
Anyways.
1: Jesus still declared all foods clean.
2: And Paul still refers to unworthy taking of Communion as sinning against the body AND BLOOD of the Lord. I don’t see how it’s possible to interpret that in any other way other than the blood of Jesus being really present.
Though Catholics still have the whole re-sacrifice of Jesus wrong. And while we believe that Communion is a participation in the death of Jesus, that doesn’t change that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone.
289
posted on
04/22/2018 1:31:32 PM PDT
by
Luircin
To: infool7
The Fathers, Doctors, Saints and Martyrs of the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ Jesus have already spoken to me through the very scriptures you mention that I could easily use but if you feel insulted then maybe you should stick to caucus threads since you need a thick skin for the FR religion forum.
***
LOL.
This coming from the guy who screams insults at everyone who dares not to be Catholic.
I have NO idea what you’re talking about other than that. If you’ve really read your Bible, why not use it?
Unless, of course, you’re utterly ignorant of the Word of God?
290
posted on
04/22/2018 1:33:53 PM PDT
by
Luircin
To: infool7
The Fathers, Doctors, Saints and Martyrs of the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ Jesus have already spoken to me through the very scriptures you mention that I could easily use but if you feel insulted then maybe you should stick to caucus threads since you need a thick skin for the FR religion forum. Too bad you don't feel the need to go right to the source.
Why rely on others opinions? Why not do your own thinking for yourself and form your own?
291
posted on
04/22/2018 1:35:21 PM PDT
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: infool7
The Fathers, Doctors, Saints and Martyrs of the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Logical fallacy - appeal to authority (plus making up stuff and pretending it is true).
The Fathers, Doctors, Saints and Martyrs .... through the very scriptures you mention that I could easily use
When you hear men talking in the Scriptures, instead of the Holy Spirit, you might be a Roman.
:-)
To: Luircin
Well, I see it different.
If all foods were declared clean and they were, it was FOOD that was declared clean. Blood has never been considered food.
Also the HS did reiterate the prohibition against eating blood.
I agree with the comment above that communion, just as Passover, was a meal of remembrance for foretelling or maybe better anticipation.
Remembering the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and anticipating, showing that we recognize that He’s coming again.
293
posted on
04/22/2018 1:40:15 PM PDT
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
294
posted on
04/22/2018 1:42:04 PM PDT
by
xone
To: ealgeone
And Jesus clearly established the REMEMBRANCE the night BEFORE He went o the cross!... But of course a Catholic Priest cannot acknowledge that since it erodes their institutional authority.
295
posted on
04/22/2018 1:42:07 PM PDT
by
MHGinTN
(A dispensational perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
To: aMorePerfectUnion
When you hear men talking in the Scriptures, instead of the Holy Spirit, you might be a Roman.
***
BURN! Lol!
296
posted on
04/22/2018 1:42:19 PM PDT
by
Luircin
To: metmom
Well, I’m not gonna deny you your salvation no matter what your beliefs on that particular point are; I simply wanted to make a counterpoint to what you were saying.
And since the most important matter of salvation is settled for the both of us, I guess we’ll just find out when Jesus returns!
297
posted on
04/22/2018 1:44:08 PM PDT
by
Luircin
To: ADSUM
You can either believe or not believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. Obviously you dont. You can either believe or not believe in the Real Presence of Jesus as defined by the Catholic church as transubstantiation. Obviously you dont, since as shown, Eucharistic theology is contrary to the hosts being a body "sensible, visible, tangible," which can be be "detected by sense, nor understanding" versus , by faith alone. If you have a host that is physically alive, and some claim to have even a pulsating or bleeding host, then it would mean you are physically putting Christ to death again. Which would make you damnable.
No less an authority than your Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church, considered the issue of such purported miraculous manifestations of the physical flesh of Christ in the hosts and explained that what appeared on those occasions,
could not be the real flesh and blood of Christ, for such a possibility was excluded by the nature of transubstantiation and of Christs sacramental presence ;
but they were miraculous representations produced by divine power as tokens to direct mens thoughts to, and to strengthen their belief in, the true flesh and blood of Christ invisibly present under the Eucharistic species.
When Catholic theologians today discuss such miracles they are rightly very cautious about the question of fact, which, they point out, must be examined with rigorous canons of historical criticism in each particular instance ; on the doctrinal question they teach that in any such apparitions it is not the true blood or tissue of Christ that appears, but, as St Thomas held, a representative sign caused by divine power ('Bleeding hosts' and Eucharistic theology, Francis Clark, S.J.)
However, if you would like to read about the 120 Vatican approved miracles, then you can read the following article:
One can argue that God can perform these miracles, but the fact remains that your belief in what the Real Presence via transubstantiation means is not that of Catholic theology, much less that of Scripture.
I do believe by Faith in the words of Jesus This is My Body and This is My Blood.
Meaning you believe in your interpretation of them, which is contrary to what transubstantiation means, and what is manifest in Scripture .
If one does not accept the Truth of Jesus about the Eucharist, how many other false teachings about Jesus do they believe?
If one does accept the lie of Jesus in the Eucharist, how many other false teachings about Jesus do they believe? Many it turns out.
298
posted on
04/22/2018 1:46:56 PM PDT
by
daniel1212
(Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
To: boatbums
Taken together, we are the ‘body of Christ’ (HE) remaining on this earth. WHEN HE is taken out of the way, THE AntiChrist will be revealed. (see 2 Thess 2)
299
posted on
04/22/2018 1:47:06 PM PDT
by
MHGinTN
(A dispensational perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
To: Luircin; aMorePerfectUnion
Burn. Interesting word choice. Is that what you guys like to do?
300
posted on
04/22/2018 1:52:53 PM PDT
by
infool7
(Observe, Orient, Pray, Decide, Act!(it's an OOPDA loop))
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 261-280, 281-300, 301-320 ... 681-686 next last
Disclaimer:
Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual
posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its
management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the
exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson