Cardinal Schönborn Reviles Saint Pius V as an "Anti-Semite”

Gloria TV ^ | 6/11/2017 | Gloria TV

[ebb tide]

Cardinal Schönborn Reviles Saint Pius V as an "Anti-Semite”

There were anti-Semites in the Catholic Church “including the canonized Pope Pius V (1504-1572)”, Vienna Cardinal Christoph Schönborn said on Friday during a discussion with Protestant bishop Michael Bünker in church Sankt Leopold in Vienna, "kathpress.at" reports.

According to "kathpress.at" Schönborn said: "On the Catholic side, too, there were great antisemites and persecutors of the Jews, including the canonized Pope Pius V."

Talking about the alleged dark side of the Church makes more cautious when judging Islam, Schönborn added. According to him Catholics “live in a glass house” and “shouldn’t throw stones”.

[Marchmain]

Yes, look at the Jews of Shakespeare and Dickens! This was a widespread attitude in no way exclusive to the Christian papacy.

[Phinneous]

I hear ya bro. After rabbinical school, 10 yrs of marriage and 5 kids (Baruch Hashem) I can stand to lose a few pounds of flesh.

[ebb tide]

Get out of here. Slamming the Catholic church over and over isn’t a religious discussion.

Bipolar Bob did not slam the Catholic Church on this thread; he merely called you out on your childish profanity.

I think you hate the Catholic Church more than he does.

[ebb tide]

Yes. I believe I may have accidentally gotten pope pius V mixed up with pope pius VI. New may be culpa.

So that's you apology for defamation of a Catholic saint? A "new may be culpa", whatever that is?

[BipolarBob]

Thank you ebb tide. I don't think I hate the RCC as much as I disagree on some more than a few points. I choose not to respond to the other poster and admire how you said you would pray for him.

[ebb tide]

No problem, Bob.

I’ve never seen a person more confused about the religion he claims to “profess”.

[metmom]

Considering the history of the Jews and their dealings with Gentiles, it is hardly surprising that there’s animosity on both sides.

Peter’s response to God’s command to go to Cornelius gives a lot of insight into how strained the relations were at that time.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I recall hearing/reading somewhere that what God’s original intent with the Hebrew people was that they be His instrument for bringing the Truth about Him to the rest of the world. And to spread the news about His love for mankind to men so as to save them.

And they did not do this.

[piusv]

I would like to know on what he is basing this accusation. Is it because Pope St PiusV didn’t subscribe to the Vatican II religion of ecumenism?

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

And they did not do this.

In fact, the teachings of their Rabbi's require the exact opposite! That is why today, the ultra-orthodox still spit on Christians as they pass by (following the instructions of their own Talmud), and celebrating the death and murder of the goyim. And what the scripture says on the matter is of no relevance to them, because the vanity and inventions of their Rabbis are their own god.

[metmom]

No comment in order to keep my account active.

But it sounds disturbingly familiar.

Do the Jews not realize that things have changed and that Christians are their biggest supporters?

I know in Israel it sounds like they do. But here?

[BipolarBob]

Ex. 19:5 'Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; 6 and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.'

It was their mission to evangelize the world.

[Phinneous]

I don’t recall being instructed how to spit on Christians and, since we Jews have a measure and method for every commandment, perhaps you could show me your source so that I may know how to do it properly if I see you?

You could argue that the point of the OP’s post was to show the foolishness of a Catholic leader proclaiming a hesitance to criticize the evils of Islam. But you chose instead to defend the antisemitism as justified.

Inferred of course is that the ancient, dark-age, (and I’ll add Luther Protestants until the divinely providential inception of America) Christians didn’t just write about their hatred for Jews or their theological reasons for disagreeing with them— they tortured and murdered them. [Ergo how could we modern day Catholics criticize Islamists....according to the article]

But you choose instead to justify the antisemitism. It’s all quite a matter of fact and history you see. (Puny Human read it on Come and Hear.com) Before you puff up— yes, the aforementioned Talmudic teaching of Jesus boiling IS in the Talmud. FYI it’s next to the punishment of Bilam the sorcerer...boiling in feces. That is a teaching on the gravity of heresy, literal or metaphorical. BUT IT’S IN A BOOK. Are you or were you afraid that a Jew would’ve used your Christian blood for Passover matzah? Do you believe a Jew tortured or murdered a Christian at any time in history by beating the Christian with his heavy, slanderous Jew-books?

And which gentile’s death should I celebrate? I feel I’m missing a party, FOMO, or you just may be mistaken, again.

Metmom— support all you want. Vote for Religious conservatives (or go hard Trump like GPH.) Send Israel your money. (Send Chabad your money.) Or don’t— (G-d fearing) Jews appreciate support for sanity and fact, like the State of Israel being morally and legally correct in the way it conducts itself. And the religious Jews don’t even care if you long for the day, G-d forbid, that we convert. Just be clear that the appreciation for your support remains in the worldly domain and no further.

Jews wait for the Messiah to rectify the world. Christians wait for their second coming and have in the past (albeit not today) helped it along by murdering Jews— based on the beliefs of the Jew. Insanity.

Pray for me GPH, Metmom... Wait, don’t bother. I’ll pray for you.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

From Israel Sahak, holocaust survivor and Jewish professor in Israel:

Apart from the fixed daily prayers, a devout Jew must utter special short blessings on various occasions, both good and bad (for example, while putting on a new piece of clothing. eating a seasonal fruit for the first time that year, seeing powerful lightning, hearing bad news, etc.) Some of these occasional prayers serve to inculcate hatred and scorn for all Gentiles, We have mentioned in Chapter 2 the rule according to which a pious Jew must utter a curse when passing near a Gentile cemetery, whereas he must bless God when passing near a Jewish cemetery. A similar rule applies to the living; thus, when seeing a large Jewish population a devout Jew must praise God, while upon seeing a large Gentile population he must utter a curse. Nor are buildings exempt: the Talmud lays down63 that a Jew who passes near an inhabited non-Jewish dwelling must ask God to destroy it, whereas if the building is in ruins he must thank the Lord of Vengeance. (Naturally, the rules are reversed for Jewish houses.) This rule was easy to keep for Jewish peasants who lived in their own villages or for small urban communities living in all-Jewish townships or quarters. Under the conditions of classical Judaism, however, it became impracticable and was therefore confined to churches and places of worship of other religions (except Islam).64 In this connection, the rule was further embroidered by custom: it became customary to spit (usually three times) upon seeing a church or a crucifix, as an embellishment to the obligatory formula of regret.65 Sometimes insulting biblical verses were also added.66

There is also a series of rules forbidding any expression of praise for Gentiles or for their deeds, except where such praise implies an even greater praise of Jews and things Jewish. This rule is still observed by Orthodox Jews. For example. the writer Agnon, when interviewed on the Israeli radio upon his return from Stockholm, where he received the Nobel Prize for literature, praised the Swedish Academy, but hastened to add: 'I am not forgetting that it is forbidden to praise Gentiles, but here there is a special reason for my praise' - that is, that they awarded the prize to a Jew.

https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jewhis5.htm

Admittedly, this example here is only referring to spitting at dead Christians, churches, crucifixes, etc. But here it is in practice, with the rampant spitting that ultra-orthodox Jews do:

Ultra-Orthodox young men curse and spit at Christian clergymen in the streets of Jerusalem's Old City as a matter of routine. In most cases the clergymen ignore the attacks, but sometimes they strike back. Last week the Jerusalem Magistrate's Court quashed the indictment against an Armenian priesthood student who had punched the man who spat at him.

read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/ultra-orthodox-spitting-attacks-on-old-city-clergymen-becoming-daily-1.393669

But you chose instead to defend the antisemitism as justified.

I didn't say anything like "gassing Jews is justified." It is simply a call for historical balance and religious truth. It is tiresome to always read about evil Christians and not the misbehavior of Talmudism's cultists, which are easily verifiable.

Christians didn’t just write about their hatred for Jews or their theological reasons for disagreeing with them— they tortured and murdered them.

Speaking of torture and murder, the Jews were the first religious terrorists. Jewish assassins in ancient times routinely stabbed innocent people, other Jews, politicians, anyone who disagreed with them, as they went about their day shopping. If they had ha bombs, they would have used them. Since they didn't have them, they depended on cloaks, crowds, and sharp knives. Later, Jews would massacre entire families of Gentiles, entire cities, or force prisoners to fight each other in gladiator battles, and not even for purely religious reasons.

Under Trajan, the Jews felt their pocket books threatened, since the cities Trajan was conquering happened to be, in essence, the lifeblood of Jewish money. After Trajan conquered the East, rich Jews worked the Jewish population into a frenzy, sparking rebellions in cities Trajan had already conquered in an attempt to undermine Trajan's war effort against the East.

According to ancient historians, the Jews nearly depopulated the regions they overthrew from Roman control:

"The Jews ... waged war on the inhabitants throughout Libya in the most savage fashion, and to such an extent was the country wasted that its cultivators having been slain, its land would have remained utterly depopulated, had not the Emperor Hadrian gathered settlers from other places and sent them thither, for the inhabitants had been wiped out."

– Orosius, Seven Books of History Against the Pagans, 7.12.6.

Of course, these are Romans we're talking about, not monks walking around in seedy ultra-orthodox areas of Jerusalem. The result was that Jews were practically wiped out in those regions in retaliation. Your average Roman citizen, once they got the better of their former Jewish tormentors, tore them to literal pieces.

We can go back and forth with the atrocity stories for as long as you like, but the conclusion will always be the same.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Before you puff up— yes, the aforementioned Talmudic teaching of Jesus boiling IS in the Talmud. FYI it’s next to the punishment of Bilam the sorcerer...boiling in feces. That is a teaching on the gravity of heresy, literal or metaphorical.

By the way, I forgot to comment on this, but another disturbing element of the Talmud is its obsession with semen, urine and feces. I think this really demonstrates the depravity of the Rabbis that their first instinct is, essentially, to resort to semi-sexual scatology as means to ridicule and attack their enemies. There are also bizarre commandments or medicinal remedies related to such things, such as the belief that eating mud from "around the shadow of a privy (toilet)" is supposed to cure ailments, or that a Jew should wait the amount of time it takes to walk a mile after having a pee before having sex, because otherwise a Demon will give your resulting child epilepsy.

I think such traditions can also safely rule out any possibility of the Talmud having any real, divine origins, but is merely the invention of demented, superstitious and legalistic men.

[metmom]

THAT’S what I was trying to say.

Thank you!

[metmom]

Kind of parallels the church today.

Churches have become so ingrown. Little enclaves of Christian cliques.

[metmom]

I vote very conservative. I don't think I could get more right of where I am.

I do pray for Israel also and join with the Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem threads.

Jews wait for the Messiah to rectify the world. Christians wait for their second coming and have in the past (albeit not today) helped it along by murdering Jews— based on the beliefs of the Jew. Insanity.

There is absolutely NO justification ever for murdering someone in the name of Christ.

EVER!!!!

One of Satan's biggest successes is getting people to commit atrocity in the name of God and besmirch His character.

FWIW, I also do not take seriously the slander against God that many atheists and God haters accuse Him of for eradicating some of the pagan nations around Israel during its history.

God never brings judgment without good reason and never brings it without giving people an opportunity to repent and turn to Him first.

The abominable practices of the Baal and Molech worshipers required their eradication. Much the same as islam today. The whole belief system needs to go. I actually feel for the normal everyday people who are trapped in that belief system and have to live with that kind of oppression.

Jihadists, OTOH, no sympathy.

[Phinneous]

“...disturbing elements...”

Where, on the Vanguard Network? Angelfire? I was wrong, BTW... Bilam the Sorcerer is in semen, but that leaves excrement... [Again BTW, even among religious Jews there is debate if the “Yeshu” or “That Man” in the Talmud is Jesus. The dates are incongruous when the narratives are introduced. Believe what you wish, but don’t torture or murder based on beliefs.

Doesn’t even your selective parsing and tenuous translation of scripture describe the uncleanliness of semen (Lev 15:16?) The real Talmudic writing and in real Jewish practice these fluids and excrement are unclean. You are googling only deep enough to find the Jew-hating sites that distort. Demons? How can I argue with a Protestant who rejects the existence of forces that Catholics believe in? I guess I could say— the older the better. So Jews win. The modern rabbinic orthodox Jewish take on it is that these forces are minimal and mostly hidden from the world as the spiritual state of the world is lowered the further from Mount Sinai and the giving of the Torah. Ie, we’re less sensitive now, metaphysically speaking.

Spitting? Was done at a cross or church— a symbol of oppression for Jews. However the incidents in the Old City of Jerusalem are clearly a disturbed minority. Here the rabbinate of Jerusalem rebukes them:

http://www.jta.org/2010/01/18/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/spitting-on-christians-in-jerusalem-draws-rabbinic-rebuke

Find me an article of Jews in Brooklyn or Miami spitting on gentiles. It’s not a matter of religious dogma. Not Jewish.

You mention an Israeli scholar, Israel Sahak. Could you imagine a Holocaust survivor rebelling against religion? Do you know how anti-religious most modern Israelis are? In his adult life he did not practice Torah Judaism and greatly criticized medieval outgrowths of Jewish practice that were driven by circumstance (again, spitting at a church is not like dismembering a damned non-believer.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Shahak

“Speaking of torture and murder...” You move on to supposed Jewish torture and murder of Romans. Pshaw. A) You don’t address the completely lopsided and disgusting treatment of Christians against Jews for the Jews’ beliefs, ie, you gloss over my main point and B) You quote an early Christian source writing about events supposedly 200 years prior, regarding the vanquished Jews, with whom Orosius, a nascent Christian believer couldn’t possible be an objective writer.

In the history of Christian dominance there is no question that they failed to live up to the religion they tried to replace, nor their new covenant with whomever— Catholic or Protestant. Just admit it the with out bringing poop into the subject. Modern Christianity I admit has nothing to do with murder ad torture. That’s clearly a Muslim’s job.

In all of you posts on your interpreted foibles of Judaism you’re like Good Will Hunting. Good GPH Hunting. You google only so deep but have you met an orthodox Jew?

Like CS Lewis’ Aslan... “If she [the white witch] could have looked back deeper, before the Dawn of Time...”

If GPH could google a little deeper....Before the anti-semite hits that always pollute a google search on Judaism....

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Doesn’t even your selective parsing

Notice you accuse me of "selective parsing" but then go on to defend the essence of them anyway as if I didn't reference them incorrectly at all. "They're [feces, urine, etc] unclean!" or "Don't you believe in demons!?" I think that was the same reaction I got the last time I quoted them out directly to Jews.

But epilepsy is not caused by a demon that punishes you for having sex too soon after a pee. Not to mention, it's probably better to just wash your genitals rather than just waiting the amount of time it takes to walk one mile. And lastly, it just isn't normal to imagine your enemies boiling in semen, whether you consider them unclean or not. But it is normal for the Rabbis.

Was done at a cross or church— a symbol of oppression for Jews.

It's more than just because Jews accuse them of being "oppressive." It's because the Talmud teaches that the Goyim are subhumans. More from Israel Shahak, same link as previously:

Indirectly Murdering Gentiles is OK Provided Jews are not implicated

"[O]ne of the two most important commentators on the Shulhan Arukh explains that when it comes to a Gentile, 'one must not lift one's hand to harm him, but one may harm him indirectly, for instance by removing a ladder after he had fallen into a crevice .., there is no prohibition here, because it was not done directly:3 He points out, however, that an act leading indirectly to a Gentile's death is forbidden if it may cause the spread of hostility towards Jews.4"

It is a sin to rescue a non-Jew

"As for Gentiles with whom we are not at war ... their death must not be caused, but it is forbidden to save them if they are at the point of death; if, for example, one of them is seen falling into the sea, he should not be rescued, for it is written: 'neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy fellow' - but [a Gentile] is not thy fellow."

Maimonides, op. cit., 'Murderer' 4, 11.

Adultery with a Gentile Woman is Equated to Bestiality

"The Halakhah presumes all Gentiles to be utterly promiscuous and the verse 'whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue [of semen] is like the issue of horses'40 is applied to them. Whether a Gentile woman is married or not makes no difference, since as far as Jews are concerned the very concept of matrimony does not apply to Gentiles ('There is no matrimony for a heathen'). Therefore, the concept of adultery also does not apply to intercourse between a Jewish man and a Gentile woman; rather, the Talmud41 equates such intercourse to the sin of bestiality. (For the same reason, Gentiles are generally presumed not to have certain paternity.)

Giving Gifts to Gentiles is Forbidden Unless as a Form of Investment

"The Talmud bluntly forbids giving a gift to a Gentile. However, classical rabbinical authorities bent this rule because it is customary among businessmen to give gifts to business contacts. It was therefore laid down that a Jew may give a gift to a Gentile acquaintance, since this is regarded not as a true gift but as a sort of investment, for which some return is expected. Gifts to 'unfamiliar Gentiles' remain forbidden. A broadly similar rule applies to almsgiving. Giving alms to a Jewish beggar is an important religious duty. Alms to Gentile beggars are merely permitted for the sake of peace. However there are numerous rabbinical warnings against allowing the Gentile poor to become 'accustomed' to receiving alms from Jews, so that it should be possible to withhold such alms without arousing undue hostility."

Returning Lost Property to Gentiles is Forbidden Unless Secular Law Compels

If a Jew finds property whose probable owner is Jewish, the finder is strictly enjoined to make a positive effort to return his find by advertising it publicly. In contrast, the Talmud and all the early rabbinical authorities not only allow a Jewish finder to appropriate an article lost by a Gentile, but actually forbid him or her to return it.48 In more recent times, when laws were passed in most countries making it mandatory to return lost articles, the rabbinical authorities instructed Jews to do what these laws say, as an act of civil obedience to the state - but not as a religious duty, that is without making a positive effort to discover the owner if it is not probable that he is Jewish.

We can keep going like this for awhile. The bottom line is that it isn't because the Talmud feels so oppressed by all these Gentiles. It's because the Talmud teaches hatred towards Gentiles.

Hence even Roman historians, after learning of the Talmud, inferred that the Jews were "haters of mankind."

Jews. However the incidents in the Old City of Jerusalem are clearly a disturbed minority.

It is the norm among the Ultra-Orthodox. Whether they are a "disturbed minority" or not makes no difference. It is merely an example of what people who take the Talmud seriously do with it.

Modern Christianity I admit has nothing to do with murder ad torture. That’s clearly a Muslim’s job.

I'm glad you feel that way. Christianity's love and peace exist because of the teachings of Christianity. Crimes, on the other hand, are not founded upon the New Testament.

In contrast, the Talmud is the source of incredible evil, superstition and pure hatred, and is clearly and obviously not something that was inspired by the Holy Spirit of God.