Posted on 12/02/2016 8:28:13 AM PST by Morgana
Edited on 12/04/2016 11:59:41 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
FULL TITLE: Gay man is left stunned and hurt after Catholic pastor bans him from singing at his own grandmother's funeral because of his sexuality, insisting that it would 'cause a scandal'
A gay man has told of his shock and disbelief after a Catholic pastor banned him from singing at his grandmother's funeral because of his sexuality.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
So what’s the problem?
Letting that happen sounds Solomonic to me.
“Some are asking whether the opposite could happen... whether the prayer could move the offender in a hallowed direction.”
With God all things are possible. I cannot imagine, though, that God needs us to be scandalized in order to work His will.
“If the context is such as that it looks like it’s on behalf of the church itself, being where he is, rather than on behalf of himself... then it would be scandal.”
Spot on. It’s very unusual for a non-Catholic to see this so clearly.
Often His will does look scandalous to mere men.
And, it appears, that it was arranged for him to sing his tribute at the gravesite, outside of the official church service.
I try to honor attempts to be religious towards God, even if they turn out to be wrong headed. Because I’d want God to be equally merciful to me if I turned out to have something wrong too.
His own family must not have wanted him to sing or they could have moved this event to anywhere else in the world where this pastor has no say in what happens.
It looks like they wanted a specific “funeral mass” — a standard Catholic worship service — which also has standard implications, however.
He sang at the gravesite afterwards. Some here jeer, but at least if there was a chance that this could move the offender in a holier direction, it was taken. Maybe the grandmother would have approved of that.
Evangelical equivalents may exist. Some evangelical church members want the gospel to be preached at their funerals. (I would.) They’d probably want the people who would preach or sing alongside that to be known for serious Christian integrity, too. But if someone wanted to raise a tribute separately, most would not complain.
“I try to honor attempts to be religious towards God, even if they turn out to be wrong headed. Because I’d want God to be equally merciful to me if I turned out to have something wrong too.”
We all have something wrong. The problem here is that this is not an attempt to be religious toward God, but an attempt to scandalize the faithful.
And I know people will say, “How can you know what is in his heart?” et cetera, et cetera, to which I reply, “Come on, man.”
We are ass-u-me’ing that is the ONLY thing that could possibly move the person.
That could be hideously wrong, in which case the moral onus would be on us.
Yes you ARE replying “come on” with your own private assumption.
And actually it COULD be at least asked of the person what he had in mind. If the answer has any kind of “inclusion of LGBT in church affairs” then we know it is no. But if it does not, then the onus is on that person if he has not been honest, not on the church for taking it as honest.
Some people ass-u-me without even thinking of the possibility to ask questions!
As it is, he did sing separately, so he accommodated the church and the church accommodated him by keeping respectful distances.
My grandmother had a friend who wrote in her will that at her funeral she wanted Nat King Cole’s “Rambling Rose” to be played.
Her family got into a big fight with the Church, which refused to play it because it was non-liturgical music.
They can and do say no to things like this all the time.
I was actually edified to read the pastor's letter in full, and if you have not done so, I recommend it to you now.
The pastor actually invited the young gay man to sing in tribute to his grandmother at the funeral home, the parish hall, at the cemetery or at the post-funeral luncheon. And the man did indeed sing at the cemetery, at his grandmother's gravesite, just as the priest suggested.
The gay man complains that the priest pre-judged him without talking to him, when in fact it was the priest who repeatedly urged a dialogue on the matter.
We can still hope this will occur. It could do a lot toward peace in the Church, and toward the man's well-being and redemption.
“We are ass-u-me’ing that is the ONLY thing that could possibly move the person.”
No, I am doing a good deal more than that. I am applying the knowledge gained over an eventful 6.5 decades in this world. When I say “knowledge,” I am speaking of information and experience not merely gained, but examined, deconstructed, reconstructed, discussed, defended, discarded if found wanting, and adopted if it survived the cauldron.
I made a judgment, not an assumption.
I could be wrong, but, you know, I’m not.
Exactly, HiTech. Thank you.
I can't see any priest objecting to an appropriately performed song at a funeral. Suspect the complainer had something inappropriate in mind, e.g., a garish or flamboyant act that might be ok elsewhere, but not in a church - and not at a funeral.
The complainer was probably free to ask that the relative's funeral be held somewhere other than a church. And to have a secular person preside. But perhaps his other relatives wanted a traditional service. And they have rights too.
Your judgment contains an assumption, that even if it turned out the way you had seen early in your 65 years, that it has to keep on turning out that way. That God cannot move in a new direction.
So I don’t know that you are not wrong.
WHY is this so hard to figure out?
But certainly we would welcome seeing an explication of the process you used. If it was so thorough, it will stand on its own, and will stand up to all examination.
The adulterer was not allowed to sing at his grandmother’s funeral.
The liar was not allowed to sing at his grandmother’s funeral.
The sinner was not allowed to sing at his grandmother’s funeral.
We can’t have it both ways. Sin is sin and if one sinner is forbidden to sing we all should be forbidden to sing.
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