i am sooooo tired of this old fool...
| This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
|
Locked on 11/13/2016 10:16:09 AM PST by Religion Moderator, reason:
Too many caucus members engaging a non caucus member’s reply. |
Posted on 11/11/2016 8:13:53 AM PST by ebb tide
Cardinal-designate Blase Cupich of Chicago joined Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s Secretary of State, as a presenter at a Vatican press conference on the publication of Nei tuoi occhi è la mia parola (“In Your Eyes Are My Word”).
The book is the first unabridged collection of the future Pope Francis’s homilies and addresses from 1999 to 2013, when he served as archbishop of Buenos Aires.
Other presenters at the press conference included Father Arturo Sosa, the new superior general of the Society of Jesus, and Father Federico Lombardi, the former director of the Holy See Press Office.
The book also includes a new interview with Father Antonio Spadaro, editor-in-chief of Civiltà Cattolica. During the interview, the Pope spoke about the importance of listening to others, as well as his method of preparation for his daily Mass homilies.
He also discussed the sacred liturgy. Crux reported:
Asked about the liturgy, Pope Francis insisted the Mass reformed after the Second Vatican Council is here to stay and “to speak of a ‘reform of the reform’ is an error.”
In authorizing regular use of the older Mass, now referred to as the “extraordinary form,” now-retired Pope Benedict XVI was “magnanimous” toward those attached to the old liturgy, he said. “But it is an exception.”
Pope Francis told Father Spadaro he wonders why some young people, who were not raised with the old Latin Mass, nevertheless prefer it.
“And I ask myself: Why so much rigidity? Dig, dig, this rigidity always hides something, insecurity or even something else. Rigidity is defensive. True love is not rigid.”
Epic Post!
At a Low Mass (one in which the priest recites, rather than sings, most of the liturgy) it is permitted to sing hymns in the vernacular. At a High Mass, everything sung during Mass (the processional and recessional hymns don't count) is supposed to be in Latin.
Meanwhile priests that did not comply were disciplined and reprimanded.
In practice, it was forbidden.
i am sooooo tired of this old fool...
and
In authorizing regular use of the older Mass, now referred to as the “extraordinary form,” now-retired Pope Benedict XVI was “magnanimous” toward those attached to the old liturgy, he said. “But it is an exception.”
I actually believe that Francis is actually speaking the truth here. And I also predict that Francis will repeal Benedict's Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum before he dies/retires.
“why does the Mass have to be in Latin?”
It does not have to be. Most Catholics alive today have never attended a Mass in Latin. Also, some Catholic Churches - such as the Italo-Albanian Catholic Church have never had a Mass in Latin. (Technically they would call their liturgy the Divine Liturgy and its always been in Old Albanian which is different from the modern Albanian dialects of Tosk and Gheg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_dialects ).
Anyway, the point is the Mass doesn’t have to be in Latin. It can be in just about any language. Swahili? Yes. Klingon? No. There is a real issue here, a real need - the need for a universal language. If it isn’t Latin, then it will ultimately become English. Some people know that too is problematic so they have pushed for an alternative to both Latin (since it is hard and rare) and English (since it is hard and so closely associated with America and the First World). These efforts will fail because they have so little to work with. French as a universal language? No. Spanish? No. Chinese? Not for another 90 or so years at least. So they’re left with this: http://www.u-matthias.de/latino/latin_en.htm It’s not going to work.
So, why Latin?
It’s the traditional language of the Church.
It’s the traditional language of learning.
It’s a “dead language” (not entirely) and therefore doesn’t change.
It’s the parent language for so many languages and fields of study - even from the secular point of view: https://classicalacademicpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/why_latin.pdf https://www.theguardian.com/culture/charlottehigginsblog/2009/may/24/latin-in-schools
Another reason to have the Mass in Latin is that the Liberals HATE IT IN LATIN. Here’s an example (oh, and this priest didn’t even know what the rules were for the old Mass) http://www.americamagazine.org/content/all-things/tridentine-mass-why-i-couldnt-go-back
I understood by experience what it really meant to have a universal Church - with a universal Church language - when I had the chance to pray with some monks in Italy. Most of the monks were NOT Italian. They were Asian, in Italy to study. So there we were in Italy, in a monastery dating back to 1018, praying, and I knew no Italian really. We were from at least three continents. None of us knew Latin as our first language, but all of us had studied it in school or learned it through the old Mass AND SUDDENLY WE WERE ALL PRAYING THE PATER NOSTER (the Lord’s Prayer) TOGETHER and it was AMAZING. When Latin was the universal language of the Roman Church, I could have traveled almost anywhere in the world and felt right at home in church because the Mass would have been the same and the language would have been the same. Tokyo, Berlin, Chicago, London, Dublin, Glasgow, Johannesburg, Buenos Aires, Rio, Mexico City, Lusaka, Nairobi, New Dehli, Copenhagen... all using the SAME Mass and in the same language. If you had something as simple as the Stedman pocket missal you were good to go: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/162219974686?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true
when the mass was all in latin, no matter what country you were in, you were home when you went to church..
“True love is not rigid.”
And ignorance is not a virtue, Mr. Bergoglio.
And apostates? “Avoid them” (Romans 16:17, 18); “quit mixing in company with” them (1 Corinthians 5:11
If Benedict is alive and did not resign completely the office of Pope (they call him Pope Emeritus) doesn’t that mean there are 2 popes? Isn’t that a schism like this:
http://www.christian-history.org/western-great-schism.html
Sometimes I found myself confronted with the Pope, with his attitude of Modernism. And I ask myself: Why so much heresy? Dig, dig, this heresy always hides something, insecurity or even something else. Heresy is divisive. True love is not of confusion.
I’m not discussing what was done “in practice.”
I was pointing out that when Bergoglio says that Benedict was “magnanimous” in “authorizing” the Old Mass, he’s spouting a lie. Benedict did not “authorize” the Old Mass. Benedict just spoke the truth: It was never forbidden.
Bergoglio can’t “repeal” SP, because Benedict didn’t “give” anybody “permission” to say the Old Mass. Benedict simply declared that the Old Mass was never forbidden.
If Bergoglio ATTEMPTS to abrogate the Old Mass, he should be ignored, because no Pope has the authority to forbid it.
Everything Latin except the homily (man that would be tough!). And right before it, the Gospel and the Epistle are also reread in English.
At High (sung) Mass English hymns are typically added at the Entrance and Recessional. In a Low (spoken) Mass, if there is a choir you will likely get additional English hymns.
Nice. I've always wondered....is there any German?
By the way....I think this “Catholics and Respectful Others” thread, as NorthMountain called it, has been a smashing success. Everyone on both sides gets a gold star for this one. :)
This is definitely an accidental experiment worth repeating. Sometimes I feel like I want to ask a respectful question on the Protestant Caucus threads but am a little hesitant to do so.
(Apologies to those who already got this via private message...I wanted to post this generally and hit private reply by accident.)
Whatever you want to call it, I predict that Francis will make the Latin Mass a thing of the past. It will be interesting to see what the indult and SSPX groups will do/not do with this when it happens.
Sometimes God reveals the truth to us through negative examples. I believe Pope Francis is one of those negative examples. My hope is that the pendulum swings back forcefully and soon.
Because of SP, priests could now offer the Latin Mass without fear of disciplinary actions. Prior to SP, an indult was required to offer the Latin Mass. That alone proves that it was previously something not allowed by law. Per the Catholic Encyclopedia,
Indults are general faculties, granted by the Holy See to bishops and others, of doing something not permitted by the common law.
There are still restrictions attached to offering the Latin Mass even with SP (for example, a priest can not offer the Latin Mass during the Easter Triduum).
Just as SP "replaced" prior documents such as Quattuor Abhinc Annos and Ecclesia Dei so can SP be replaced by a document written by Francis.
There used to be, but during WWI, the synod as a whole switched from German to English in order to ease fears from those who doubted the loyalty to the United States.
Young Roman Catholics who love the traditional Liturgy, and who are dissed by the Frankish antipope, need to check out the Orthodox Church—ASAP!!!!
There may be a reason why God is allowing the Catholic Winter to happen!!!!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.