Posted on 09/22/2016 10:45:55 AM PDT by fishtank
Pastor Andy Stanley says the Bible is too hard to defend
Evangelical pastor preaches that the Bible isn’t the foundation for the Christian faith
by Lita Cosner and Scott Gillis
Published: 22 September 2016 (GMT+10)
Andy Stanley has a church network of over 30,000 people in the Atlanta area, and his church was rated the fastest-growing in America in 2014 and 2015.1 Recently, he has been criticized by many evangelicals for saying that we need to take the focus off the Bible and put it on the Resurrection, because he claims that gives us a firmer foundation for our faith. As Stanley put it: “We believe Jesus rose from the dead not because the Bible says so. It is way better than that! Christianity does not hang by the thread of ‘The Bible told me so’.”2 And: “The original version [of Christianity], the pre-Bible version, was defensible, it was endurable, it was persecutable, it was fearless, it was compassionate, and it was compelling,” but he claims “it is next to impossible to defend the entire Bible”.2
(Excerpt) Read more at creation.com ...
Do you think the 144,000 in Chapter Rev.7 will be left behind?
HAHAHAHA! “Left behind”. I hate that phrase. ;-)
Yes. But they have His mark. I don’t believe that after that point a soul will be saved. It’s why I call it the “wrath of God” section. Before it is the “tribulation”.
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John 3:16 is the most misunderstood verse in the entire Bible.
The chief problem being that most that read it think it means intellectual belief, but it means living your life in total compliance with Torah, as he himself did.
So, yes, it is that simple to those that read scriptures for understanding, but an eternal death trap for those looking for the standard get out of hell free card.
This verse will be a big part of why 99% of professing “christians” will miss the last trump, and spend eternity gnashing their spiritual teeth.
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John 3:16 is the most misunderstood verse in the entire Bible.
So, yes, it is that simple to those that read scriptures for understanding, but an eternal death trap for those looking for the standard get out of hell free card.
This verse will be a big part of why 99% of professing “christians” will miss the last trump, and spend eternity gnashing their spiritual teeth.
Oh sure, they’ll be sad and or angry, until they’re burned up. It is arguable that the unquenchable fire that destroys them is the same one that gives the saved eternal life: God, Himself.
God IS that fire.
And Jesus says to fear Him that can destroy both body AND soul in Gehenna.
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>> “The lost are destroyed. Burned up. Gone forever. They are annihilated.” <<
Not Biblical!
The lost have no body to destroy; they are spirits, and a spirit cannot be destroyed.
Eternal punishment is the only thing the word teaches.
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Yes. They can. I covered that in my post.
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http://biblehub.com/matthew/25-46.htm
The word is the way to understanding.
projections of men are lies and confusion.
Shed the words of men and indulge in the scriptures.
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>> “ I covered that in my post.” <<
Your posts are not scripture, nor any facsimile thereof.
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A detailed, and cogent analysis of what the scriptures really say, not the dissimulation of men.
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/annihilation-or-eternal-punishment/
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I read it a while back. Not convincing. It also goes against the personality of the God of the bible.
OK, you’re anti-scripture, pro immagination.
I know you are, but what am I?
;-)
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Your comments speak for themselves.
You called posting scriptures “reinventing the wheel.”
If I held your beliefs, I would hate the scriptures too.
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Your comments speak for themselves.
You called posting scriptures “reinventing the wheel.”
If I held your beliefs, I would hate the scriptures too.
My “reinventing the wheel” comment is “why type it all out when I can just cut and paste a link?”
And I’ve made clear how I feel about the scriptures.
For some reason you think one man’s “blog” is the word of God, but another that disagrees is “unbiblical”. That’s your opinion and, of course you are entitled to it. But It’s interesting that I’m already familiar with your last link because I actually read it.
You see, I like to get all sides on something I read in scripture, especially if it’s controversial, to take care to not be misled. I used to be an advocate of ECT, but had never actually studied it. I just believed what “wise” Christians said. But as I became more familiar with His word and His personality, the less comfortable I was with it. Then I actually studied it. I read the sites on BOTH sides of the issue and searched the scriptures that deal with it. And since I listen to the bible between two and three hours a day on my commute and have for a couple years now, I noticed it is folded into scripture a lot more than people realize.
It’s funny. People say that you can’t “kill the spirit”. Well, We were talking in church tonight about being born again, and how the spirit is born as a second birth. This strongly implies (within context) that those that do not accept Christ are NOT born again, and therefore not born of the spirit. So there is nothing there that is eternal.
I get all of my beliefs on this subject from the OT and NT. The writings of other people merely guide me to those scriptures. And since I read the arguments from BOTH sides, I get to compare and make up my own mind.
As do you.
We’ve gone full circle. I pray (I just did) that you and I both acquire more wisdom than we have today and find ourselves in the Father’s presence in eternity.
The scriptures are the word of God, not the many divergent human opinions that you continually post in rebuttal of the word.
“Wise” christians are fools. They reject the plain word of God.
There are not two sides to this question. There is what the word says, and there is what fools wish the word said.
Eternal punishment is the only thing presented in the word. The rest is touchey-feeley rejection of it.
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Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.Does this have to happen before the rapture?
I believe it happens before Revelation 7, yes.
Keep in mind, I’ve shifted my position on this a LOT since I first started studying it in 1981.
Probably the biggest shift is that I’ve gone from KNOWING my position is right, to seeing it as something no man can know. Fortunately, I see it not as my primary belief, but as a backdrop to it - A sort of background noise.
I was talking to a music director at a large church in Louisville a while back. It was a church where many members were also teachers and professors at a local Christian university. The subject was about all the pastors in the small churches where I now live being so absolutely sure of doctrine that I don’t believe they can support, nor do they try to.
His comment was that you don’t see a lot of that at his church. He said he’s found that, regarding “controversial” Christian issues, the more a person knows about the word of God, the less sure they are of their position. Not in every case, of course, but generally speaking.
I had to finally end it with a member here that was spouting his opinion as though his was the word of God and mine wasn’t, even though both of us were getting our opinions from His word, and I can only assume, prayerfully so.
I no longer suffer such arguments for long.
Also, you said, “A further thought. What are you saved from?”
This is a big one for me. What you are saved from is what we got and Adam was warned about in the garden: Death. And not death of the body. That is a “tent” we occupy. It is death of the “you”.
Get your Bible out and read it.
It is God’s wrath that we deserve and that we are saved from.
(NLT) But I’ll tell you whom to fear. Fear God, who has the power to kill you and then throw you into hell. Yes, He’s the One to fear.
First you die and then you are thrown into the fiery pit. Yes that is the second death, but it is eternal fiery pit. Tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev_20:10 Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev_21:8 “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
NO, YOU ARE SAVED FROM GODS WRATH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get your Bible out and read it.
It is God’s wrath that we deserve and that we are saved from.
And here it is right here:
(NLT) But I’ll tell you whom to fear. Fear God, who has the power to kill you and then throw you into hell. Yes, He’s the One to fear.
Or, the Matthew I read this morning 10:28: Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Body dies in the first death. Soul dies at the second death. And the saved are “born again”. The lost are not. Born again is the birth of the spirit, which will dwell in eternity with Him.
The lost have suffered their fate: Death of the body they occupy and, finally, death of them.
And there is a reason the “fiery pit” metaphore is used. It destroys what is thrown into it. Well, except for satan. But then, he’s not human. He’s something else. If I throw titanium and lead into the same 1000 degree fire, I don’t expect them to respond the same.
Go here:
http://rethinkinghell.com/explore/
Then select the scriptures tab, and then the Traditionalism and conditionalism tabs to get the most common scriptures used by both. All sorts of comments there on most of them.
It actually discusses Rev 20:10.
Regardng Rev 21:8, it’s one of my favorites. In the first chapters of revelation, the churches are called lampstands. and here the second death is called a lake of fire. Keeping in mind, we’re talking “revelation” here, which is a vision chock full of metaphores and symbols, do you REALLY think the churches are literal lampstands, and the second death is a literal lake of fire?
Some would argue that the fire that consumes is God, himself. There is scripture to support that belief. I know just a brief encounter was pretty dramatic for Moses.
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