Also, you said, “A further thought. What are you saved from?”
This is a big one for me. What you are saved from is what we got and Adam was warned about in the garden: Death. And not death of the body. That is a “tent” we occupy. It is death of the “you”.
Get your Bible out and read it.
It is God’s wrath that we deserve and that we are saved from.
(NLT) But I’ll tell you whom to fear. Fear God, who has the power to kill you and then throw you into hell. Yes, He’s the One to fear.
First you die and then you are thrown into the fiery pit. Yes that is the second death, but it is eternal fiery pit. Tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev_20:10 Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev_21:8 “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
NO, YOU ARE SAVED FROM GODS WRATH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get your Bible out and read it.
It is God’s wrath that we deserve and that we are saved from.
And here it is right here:
(NLT) But I’ll tell you whom to fear. Fear God, who has the power to kill you and then throw you into hell. Yes, He’s the One to fear.
Or, the Matthew I read this morning 10:28: Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Body dies in the first death. Soul dies at the second death. And the saved are “born again”. The lost are not. Born again is the birth of the spirit, which will dwell in eternity with Him.
The lost have suffered their fate: Death of the body they occupy and, finally, death of them.
And there is a reason the “fiery pit” metaphore is used. It destroys what is thrown into it. Well, except for satan. But then, he’s not human. He’s something else. If I throw titanium and lead into the same 1000 degree fire, I don’t expect them to respond the same.
Go here:
http://rethinkinghell.com/explore/
Then select the scriptures tab, and then the Traditionalism and conditionalism tabs to get the most common scriptures used by both. All sorts of comments there on most of them.
It actually discusses Rev 20:10.
Regardng Rev 21:8, it’s one of my favorites. In the first chapters of revelation, the churches are called lampstands. and here the second death is called a lake of fire. Keeping in mind, we’re talking “revelation” here, which is a vision chock full of metaphores and symbols, do you REALLY think the churches are literal lampstands, and the second death is a literal lake of fire?
Some would argue that the fire that consumes is God, himself. There is scripture to support that belief. I know just a brief encounter was pretty dramatic for Moses.