Posted on 07/23/2016 9:19:23 AM PDT by Salvation
“Spark”?
Not simply the "spark," but Christ Himself is in the believer by the Spirit - Christ in us, the hope of glory. Which present an unresolved problem for all those RCs who claim we need to take Jn. 6:53 literally, and thus physically consume the "real" flesh and blood of Christ:
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. (John 6:53)
For this statement is as much an absolute imperative as other "verily verily" statements, and thus if taken literally then it plainly means that no one who denies and does not consume the "real" flesh and blood of Christ does not, and cannot have spiritual life in them. Yet in addition to the fact that Scripture teaches that it is by believing the word of the gospel message of salvation that one obtains spiritual life in them, (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9; Eph. 1:13) and nowhere did souls obtain that spiritual life by literally physically eating anything, even modern Rome affirms Scripture-centric Prots as being born again.
• LUMEN GENTIUM 16: "..there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (Cf. Jn. 16:13) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical [Protestant] communities…"
"They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood." —
When RCs presume to enlist Scripture to support their traditions of men, then they contradict either Scripture or their church.
Agreed. Not simply the “spark” n(whatever that is) but the full and complete Person of The Holy Ghost, directing our attention to both the Son and the Father who have made their abode within (Jn. 14:23) through His Everlasting Holy Word (Ps.138:2).
Catholics NEVER contradict either scripture nor their church....I'm here talking about REAL Catholics, not Nancy Pelosi....who knows what she is???
If Christ came to Earth to redeem mankind, and you say He was only 10% sucesful, ......what was the point????
What was the point of what bro? Why did Jesus bother to die on a cross, knowing that the vast majority of the people would choose to go to Hell, or are you asking if it is God's fault that all these people choose Hell over Heaven?
Remember, God wiped out the entire population of the world, except for 8 people. At the time, there could have been up to 200,000,000 people on the earth. I am pretty sure, but not 100% sure, that every single solitary one of them went to Hell.
Don't forget, when the children of Israel moved into different areas, God ordered the killing of every man, woman and child. If you don't think that is fair, maybe you should tell that to the Lord. I am sure He would like to explain it to you. Not.
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13,14)
Is HE believable?
Yeah, but, how do they get around that "serve" part?
Yes He is, but I don't know if TC believes it or not. You would have to ask him.
As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18
• Augustine, sermon:
"Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer. — John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327
Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18). — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.
• Augustine, sermon:
For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. — Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)
• Augustine, sermon:
And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. — John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289
• Augustine, sermon:
Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95
• Augustine, sermon:
...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193
• Augustine, Psalm LXI:
Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. — Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)
• Augustine, in “Retractions,”
In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. — The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.
Matthew 7:14 KJV
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
GMTA!
or...
I shudda read ahead
Matthew 6:24 KJV
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
Of course He is believable....like when He said "TAKE AND EAT OF THIS, THIS IS MY BODY"....I believe it, you don't.....sad.
John 6:53 is Jesus teaching doubters about the reality of spiritual being. He used the creature aspects to show the spiritual is something one must receive into them to be born from above.
Had Jesus meant to teach the John 6:53 doubters, the seekers after signs, that one must eat the creature portion to receive the spiritual portion, would He have left that out in His discourse with Nicodemus, in John 3?
Those who have decided they have the truth they want, to support the pride they harbor in their 'striving for salvation', they will not see the spiritual lesson Jesus knew then was going right over the heads of the seekers after spectacular signs.
The Roman Mass is a blasphemy substituted fro the spiritual. The proof is the RCC claim that the wafer is transmogrified to be the crea5ture body and blood of He Who is now in a glorified Body, In Heaven. He Who has promised to be spiritually really amongst any three or more gathered faithfully in His name.
Gathering to repeat the pagan practice of eating the bread sacrificed to or as the god is not faithfully gathering in His Name. It is a demonic perversion of HIS TEACHING ... and it is capturing untold millions of souls to keep them from the moment of transformation and rapture to Where Jesus has been preparing a place for us.
I disagree bro. I believe it. I just don't believe your interpretation of it. Even when I was a Catholic, so many decades ago, I didn't believe your interpretation. I thought it looked and tasted like a piece of bread, which is exactly what it is.
Now that I am an ex Catholic, I still disagree with your interpretation. It doesn't matter anyway. You told me yourself that I didn't need any of the sacraments. That is 100% correct. That is the only time I have ever agreed with you, and probably will be the last time. I am not into salvation by works. My opinion is, that you are. That's on you bro, but I have no intention of trying to bluff my way into Heaven. Maybe YOU do, but it ain't gonna cut the mustard. Sad.
It surely is. Amen.
He did, and does, but (unless one is a babe who cannot understand), not without conviction, confession, and repentant faith in Jesus alone before your soul parts from your body. After that, no. It's quid pro quo, pal.
Got anything to confess?
How will works based religionists survive eternity? I am sure all of them will be asking themselves that same question.
Think on them, and pray the LORD do the work, give some light.
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