Posted on 05/24/2016 10:28:56 AM PDT by CharlesOConnell
Muslims say Allah first revealed Himself to the Children of Israel, but they had the audacity to question Him, so He took away His revelation. And the same with the Christians.
Muslims say, Allah asked His angels, "What are the animals' names?" (To know the name of a thing is to have power over it.) They replied, "we don't know because You didn't tell us."
Muslims say that Allah's omnipotence is so great, that He can do anything He wants, including things that, to we little humans, seem to violate His, admittedly, infinite rationality.
When Catholics pray, "O my God, I firmly believe all the truths which You have revealed, You, Who can neither be deceived, nor deceive,", are Catholics the heretics?
(Hairesis, "splitting", emphasizing a fragment of the truth in preference to the totality of the truth).
God is Truth. His Word is What Is.
So if God says the sky is red then it will be red. If He ordains it blue then it is blue.
He can’t lie because anything He says becomes the Truth.
Because He is God.
“I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.”
No. God can deceive.
In one of the wars against Israel, God confused Israel’s enemies and caused them to slay themselves.
After the resurrection, Jesus appeared on the x road, and was asking questions about current events. He blocked their senses from recognizing him, until he was ready to reveal himself.
In the ten plagues against Egypt, 9 times Pharoah hardened his heart. The 10th time it says, God hardened Pharoahs heart. (not so much a deception as the removal of free will).
But God is holy and just. He’s not going to deceive someone out of ill intent. Unless of course judgement is already upon you for what you have done.
Scripture says God is Lord of Good and Lord of Evil. And that he repays evil with evil.
He calls on us to repay evil with good. But He remains Sovereign and can repay however he chooses.
The question is posed incorrectly. It’s not whether God could say the things Obama, Hillary, or Satan would say, it’s that God is good, which includes truthful.
Well, we have to be careful on the one hand not to anthropomorphize God. He is not man, and therefore the laws that restrain man do not restrain God. For example, taking another man’s life is forbidden to men (except in a few circumstances), but it is not forbidden to God.
However, certain things I think we safely can conclude that God would not do, even if He could, such as contradicting Himself, deceiving, etc. Those acts are indicative of weakness and flaws, so if God is flawless He should not indulge in such acts. That is a conclusion basic on logic, not anthropomorphization.
Or put another way, He is God. When you are God you don’t deceive, you create absolute truth.
God does not contradict His own Word.
Therefore the concept of “deception” does not apply.
There are portions of the Bible that reference God sending a strong delusion. But that’s entirely different from deception. There’s a difference between giving a man what he thinks he wants and observing the consequences (which can be a form of either instruction or wrath) and deceiving that man by saying “do this to make Me happy.” Then the man does that thing and God says, “I deceived you... that actually does not make me happy AND you suffer the punishment for doing that too.”
To put it simply, what need does God have to do such a thing? He is perfect and has no need of deception to accomplish anything from the beginning of time to the end of it.
Satan is the deceiver. The father of lies. A being who was given free will to decide how to live and he chose to attempt to defy God by several means including the corruption of His creation through deception and open rebellion.
Don’t mix up the roles, definitions or the origins of deception.
Post #3 ~
“I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.”
“Et Via, Et Veritas, Et Vida.”
Amen!
According to Hindu teachings, as there is nothing but God because of God’s infinite nature. So Creation itself is a form of deception called Maya. Because although God has become all things, that fact is veiled to us, and that veiling is the deception. An analogy is gold jewelry - to the average person, a jewelry show is filled with thousands of pieces of jewelry. But to a jeweler, there’s just the same gold in different shapes. So, to Hindu thought, is the universe and the world around is - all God. In fact it’s said that what makes a saint is the loss of that veil of deception. They can actually see the divine that makes up all things, which is why they are constantly in a state of prayer and divine intoxication - not in some heaven, but right here.
DannyTN is right. Scripture clearly portrays God as being deceptive at times.
Consider the account of Jesus walking with some people on the road to Emmaus. In Luke 24:16 “their eyes were kept from recognizing” Jesus. You may argue that that’s not really an act of deception, but surely verse 28 is, where Jesus “acted as if he were going farther” ... when He knew He really wasn’t.
Or consider Matt. 13, where Jesus explains that He spoke in parables in order that some people *not* understand what He was saying.
Or Matt. 15, where a non-Jewish woman asked Jesus for something, and He said (likely with a wink), “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” He ultimately helped her out because of her faith, but initially acted as though he wasn’t interested in helping her out.
God does “deceive.” But never in a malicious manner, and always in a redemptive manner. God loves drama, loves a good story, loves a good game of hide and seek. Deception is one tool in his storytelling toolbox.
Man is capable of deceiving himself
“Lead us not into temptation”—
I'm afraid I'll mess this up by simplifying it down too far, but as I understand it, Benedict said that the Christian view, expressed by Byzantine Emperor Manuel II (who was, BTW, Orthodox), is that ^not* acting reasonably would be contrary to God's nature.
B16 explores the word "Logos" and the fact that Christ *is* the Logos, which semantically connotes reason, order, law as well as "Word" --- the idea being that Reason/law, Truth/order are not merely His activities or some of His attributes, they are a constitutive aspect of His very Being, His character.
Christ doesn't merely say "I speak Truth," He says "I *am* Truth."
The prevailing Islamic view is that God transcends concepts such as rationality, and his will is not constrained by any principle, including rationality. His will is utterly arbitrary. He could command things that are intrinsically evil (like sodomy, murder, or even apostasy) and call them good; he could lie, and command lying, and that would be within the sovereignty of his absolutely arbitrary will.
There used to be, a millennium ago, within Islam, a school of philosophy called the Mu'tazilites. They believed that God is reasonable, truthful and good because of His inherent character. This view is now deemed heretical within Islam.
Our pastor gave a Bible study on this - and brought into how there are different “levels” or hiearchy to ethics. For example - it is okay to lie to the Nazi’s when they ask if you are hiding Jews in your basement.
During the Exodus, God had Moses tell Pharoah to “let my people go” - but it was to be able to go out into the desert to worship God - and then “we’ll be right back”.
In fighting a battle, one doesn’t lay out the entire battle plan to the enemy.
“The prevailing Islamic view is that God transcends concepts such as rationality, and his will is not constrained by any principle, including rationality. His will is utterly arbitrary.”
Regardless of whether or not this is a possibility (I think it isn’t), a god that is arbitrary is a god I wouldn’t want to follow. Such a god would necessarily be lesser than his own creation, since humans can behave reasonably and behaving reasonably is objectively better than behaving arbitrarily.
No. God is truth.
History has shown the only reasonable dialogue with Muslims usually comes at the end of a barrel.
B XVI explores the word “Logos” and the fact that Christ *is* the Logos, which semantically connotes reason, order, law as well as “Word” -— the idea being that Reason/law, Truth/order are not merely His activities or some of His attributes, they are a constitutive aspect of His very Being, His Character.
Christ doesn’t merely say “I speak Truth,” He says “I *am* Truth.”
Beautiful summation. Benedict was an under-rated author, IMO. Undeniably a towering intellect, blessed by The Holy Spirit.
Good points.
Can a Christian be a spy for his or her country? If so, a central part of their job description is to deceive.
Or what about a Christian actor? Their job is to pretend to be someone they’re not, to help us suspend our disbelief for a time.
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