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To: CharlesOConnell; MeganC; elcid1970; DannyTN; Pollster1; Boogieman; Advil000; heterosupremacist; ...
This was Pope Benedict XVI's topic in his famous Regensberg "Faith and Reason" lecture in 2006, when he asked whether dialog between Christianity and Islam could be conducted on the basis of reason.

I'm afraid I'll mess this up by simplifying it down too far, but as I understand it, Benedict said that the Christian view, expressed by Byzantine Emperor Manuel II (who was, BTW, Orthodox), is that ^not* acting reasonably would be contrary to God's nature.

B16 explores the word "Logos" and the fact that Christ *is* the Logos, which semantically connotes reason, order, law as well as "Word" --- the idea being that Reason/law, Truth/order are not merely His activities or some of His attributes, they are a constitutive aspect of His very Being, His character.

Christ doesn't merely say "I speak Truth," He says "I *am* Truth."

The prevailing Islamic view is that God transcends concepts such as rationality, and his will is not constrained by any principle, including rationality. His will is utterly arbitrary. He could command things that are intrinsically evil (like sodomy, murder, or even apostasy) and call them good; he could lie, and command lying, and that would be within the sovereignty of his absolutely arbitrary will.

There used to be, a millennium ago, within Islam, a school of philosophy called the Mu'tazilites. They believed that God is reasonable, truthful and good because of His inherent character. This view is now deemed heretical within Islam.

14 posted on 05/24/2016 12:31:26 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Mater et Magistra.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“The prevailing Islamic view is that God transcends concepts such as rationality, and his will is not constrained by any principle, including rationality. His will is utterly arbitrary.”

Regardless of whether or not this is a possibility (I think it isn’t), a god that is arbitrary is a god I wouldn’t want to follow. Such a god would necessarily be lesser than his own creation, since humans can behave reasonably and behaving reasonably is objectively better than behaving arbitrarily.


16 posted on 05/24/2016 12:59:37 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Mrs. Don-o

History has shown the only reasonable dialogue with Muslims usually comes at the end of a barrel.


18 posted on 05/24/2016 1:04:39 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Mrs. Don-o

B XVI explores the word “Logos” and the fact that Christ *is* the Logos, which semantically connotes reason, order, law as well as “Word” -— the idea being that Reason/law, Truth/order are not merely His activities or some of His attributes, they are a constitutive aspect of His very Being, His Character.

Christ doesn’t merely say “I speak Truth,” He says “I *am* Truth.”

Beautiful summation. Benedict was an under-rated author, IMO. Undeniably a towering intellect, blessed by The Holy Spirit.


19 posted on 05/24/2016 1:28:42 PM PDT by heterosupremacist ("Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
There used to be, a millennium ago, within Islam, a school of philosophy called the Mu'tazilites. They believed that God is reasonable, truthful and good because of His inherent character.

I would go so far as call that self-evident. Evil comes from imbalanced craving, the experience of lack, especially of love, which is by definition impossible for God.

No wonder Islam rejects that - and look at the results.

21 posted on 05/24/2016 1:49:25 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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