Posted on 05/24/2016 6:49:46 AM PDT by Salvation
Many of you know that I write the Question and Answer column for Our Sunday Visitor. Given the celebration of Trinity Sunday this past Sunday, I thought I might reproduce here on the blog a question/answer regarding the Trinity. It is a fairly common question; perhaps you have it, too. Remember that my answers in the column are required to be brief.
We read in a recent Sunday Gospel (May 1, 2016) that Jesus says that the Father is greater than He (Jn 14:28). Since we are all taught that each Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity fully possesses the nature of God, equally to be adored and glorified, what did Jesus mean by such a statement?” – Dick Smith, Carrolton, TX.
Theologically, Jesus means that the Father is the eternal source in the Trinity. All three persons of the Trinity are co-eternal, co-equal, and equally divine. But the Father is the Principium Deitatis (the Source in the Deity).
Hence, Jesus proceeds from the Father from all eternity. He is eternally begotten of the Father. In effect, Jesus is saying, “I delight that the Father is the eternal principle or source of my being, even though I have no origin in time.”
Devotionally, Jesus is saying that He always does what pleases His Father. Jesus loves His Father; He’s crazy about Him. He is always talking about Him and pointing to Him. By calling the Father greater, He says (in effect), “I look to my Father for everything. I do what I see Him doing (Jn 5:19) and what I know pleases Him (Jn 5:30). His will and mine are one. What I will to do proceeds from Him. I do what I know accords with His will.”
So although the members of the Trinity are all equal in dignity, there are processions in the Trinity, such that the Father is the source, the Son eternally proceeds from Him (Jn 8:42), and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father and the Son as from one principal (Jn 15:26).
St Thomas speaks poetically of the Trinity as follows:
Genitori, Genitoque … Procedenti ab utroque … compar sit laudautio
(To the One Who Begets, and to the Begotton One, and to the One who proceeds from them both, be equal praise.)
The Athanasian Creed says the following regarding these processions:
The Father is made by none, neither created nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone, neither made nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, not made, nor created, nor begotten, but he proceeds from them.
So although equal, processions do have an order. The Father is “greater” (as source), but is equal in dignity to Son and Holy Spirit.
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and for the Epilogue that ties it up in a shorter piece->
Mohammed and Charlemagne: the Epilogue"
The book is required reading for those who want to understand what is happening.
Sure there is - the correct option, the one which doesn't start out with an apologist narrowly defining a word for the benefit of that apologist's argument. The one which discerns the difference between giving homage due to a king and worshiping God. The contrived premise schtick is right out of the handbook of psychological manipulation. That's not directed at you; I am merely pointing out how this stuff is passed on to the sheep by wolves dressed as shepherds, and then the sheep tell the other sheep, and then all the sheep get swallowed up and don't know what ate them. Nothing jumped into the sheepfold, and the shepherd stayed on watch, yet...
It's not uncommon to see in Christian writings these sorts of phrases sprinkled about:
"Every serious student of the Bible knows..."
or
"Those who deny [the trinity]..."
As if the eager reader isn't a serious student if he doesn't already "know" such-and-such, or that whosoever denies a certain doctrine is denying the truth. That's the crafty set-up: state the defacto established "truths", then follow with more "truths". These teachers will have their reward for their serpent-like tactics.
People are so accustomed to that kind of subtle manipulation, that they don't see it. They not only don't see it, they unwittingly replicate it. It's how they are taught (infected). It's the life cycle of a virus.
John 9:29-41
29 We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is.
30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvelous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes.
31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.
33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.
34 They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
For judgment I am come into this world...
Bad eyes that "see" with perfect vision are already at home in the darkness. If the light therein be darkness, how great that darkness.
Burns me up that because of the ubiquity of deceit, when the truth appears, it can be perceived as yet another lie. In any case, the right answer is always worth the wait. The truth is always worth the dogged pursuit of it. The Messiah, the embodiment of truth, is worth the wait. He rectifies all things, so he's worth every effort to push past the noise and confusion in order to see him clearly.
Welcome home from Nam bro. It's probably something that those who were never in country, may not entirely grasp.
If you have a better explanation of the Trinity I would be glad to read it.
Thanks I will check those out
One day, two “saints” knocked at my Dad’s door. He invited them in, saying, “I am in the middle of studying the commentaries of St. Jerome. Would you like to join me”? They politely declined and went on their merry way.
I always invite the LDS and JW’s in. we sit and talk on any number of topics. I figure the longer they spend with me the less time they can spend with one of my neighbors that might not be a strong or as knowledgeable in their faith.
When I was a kid I thought JWs were crazy. I remember a foot actually stuck in the door as my mother was trying to close it in the early 60s. The JW missionaries seemed pretty pernicious. In the 70s I worked as a jewelry repair guy in a jewelry store in Gainesville fl and the jeweler was a JW and something strange to my recollections. He and I discussed religion reasonably without any rancor but with intelligent observations and discussion. Later I had missionaries at the door and they were quite different from the ones I had experienced as a child. They had obviously gone to Mormon Missionary School and were much easier to talk to. They were not all young men like the Mormons but they were no longer strident and pushing their pamphlets in your face. I have actually invited both brands of missionary in for coffee (both sets declined the coffee but were okay with pineapple juice)and had interesting discussions with them. Nobody converted anybody but it was worth the time.
I spent much of my youth in Istanbul in the 50s and have paid close attention to things Turkish and Moslem ever since. In the 50s Americans didn’t quite walk on water but it was close. I was a Turkish partisan on FR 15 years ago but keeping my fingers crossed as I saw the changes beginning to transpire. I still like the middle class Turks. They are western oriented who believe the government should not mix with religion and are fighting a lowing battle against the Islamists. It is not really a battle because they are still Moslems and share the fatalism of that brand though to a rather lesser extent than the sheepherders.
Interesting way to look at it. I think I have better success with JWs than LDS.
At the Catholic Answers website they have a list of questions to ask JW's and one to ask LDS. I printed out a copy of those and keep them next to the front door. I also have a copy of the Greek New Testament with John 1:1 book marked. Spiros Zodhiates has a KJV English/Greek parallel Translation of the NT. I have John 1:1 book marked there as well. That was a bit pricey, but I love to see the look on the Jw's face when I show it to them in both books.
Elsie:
Really? Plates? and “Mormon Scriptures” and your going to become a God in the future ruling your planet. So if Star Trek becomes a reality in the future, Captain Kirk will take the enterprise to your planet, that you will rule one day, and he will tell Scotty to energize and beam me up and down from your planet?
Good grief.
Hang in there. I was not in Istanbul or Constantinople. I was in Adana, which I heard is far more primitive than Istanbul. I thought it was like a bad dream, but I made it out on a C-141 freedom bird, from Adana to Athens to Torreon to Rhein Main.
I liked the notion of occupying them to relieve your neighbors of having to be mentally bludgeoned ...
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