Why Does Jesus Call the Father Greater If We Teach That the Members of the Trinity Are Equal?

Many of you know that I write the Question and Answer column for Our Sunday Visitor. Given the celebration of Trinity Sunday this past Sunday, I thought I might reproduce here on the blog a question/answer regarding the Trinity. It is a fairly common question; perhaps you have it, too. Remember that my answers in the column are required to be brief.

We read in a recent Sunday Gospel (May 1, 2016) that Jesus says that the Father is greater than He (Jn 14:28). Since we are all taught that each Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity fully possesses the nature of God, equally to be adored and glorified, what did Jesus mean by such a statement?” – Dick Smith, Carrolton, TX.

Theologically, Jesus means that the Father is the eternal source in the Trinity. All three persons of the Trinity are co-eternal, co-equal, and equally divine. But the Father is the Principium Deitatis (the Source in the Deity).

Hence, Jesus proceeds from the Father from all eternity. He is eternally begotten of the Father. In effect, Jesus is saying, “I delight that the Father is the eternal principle or source of my being, even though I have no origin in time.”

Devotionally, Jesus is saying that He always does what pleases His Father. Jesus loves His Father; He’s crazy about Him. He is always talking about Him and pointing to Him. By calling the Father greater, He says (in effect), “I look to my Father for everything. I do what I see Him doing (Jn 5:19) and what I know pleases Him (Jn 5:30). His will and mine are one. What I will to do proceeds from Him. I do what I know accords with His will.”

So although the members of the Trinity are all equal in dignity, there are processions in the Trinity, such that the Father is the source, the Son eternally proceeds from Him (Jn 8:42), and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father and the Son as from one principal (Jn 15:26).

(To the One Who Begets, and to the Begotton One, and to the One who proceeds from them both, be equal praise.)

The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, not made, nor created, nor begotten, but he proceeds from them.

So although equal, processions do have an order. The Father is “greater” (as source), but is equal in dignity to Son and Holy Spirit.

Please consider subscribing to Our Sunday Visitor. I also write for the National Catholic Register. These are two great publications that deserve your support.

And while I am pointing out my “extra-blogical” activities, I also ask you to consider coming to the Holy Land in March of 2017 with me and Patrick Coffin of Catholic Answers.

Your words are a good example of all that is wrong and confuses "religion"

According to Pope (and I agree with this explanation) ;

"Theologically, Jesus means that the Father is the eternal source in the Trinity. All three persons of the Trinity are co-eternal, co-equal, and equally divine. But the Father is the Principium Deitatis (the Source in the Deity)."

" Hence, Jesus proceeds from the Father from all eternity. He is eternally begotten of the Father. In effect, Jesus is saying, “I delight that the Father is the eternal principle or source of my being, even though I have no origin in time.”

"Devotionally, Jesus is saying that He always does what pleases His Father. Jesus loves His Father; He’s crazy about Him. He is always talking about Him and pointing to Him. By calling the Father greater, He says (in effect), “I look to my Father for everything. I do what I see Him doing (Jn 5:19) and what I know pleases Him (Jn 5:30). His will and mine are one. What I will to do proceeds from Him. I do what I know accords with His will.”

In short ... it's a mystery mathematically unexplainable (OUR fallible minds cannot make one plus pne equal two with this divine mystery)

YOUR response should be (as mine IS .. ) ...

yup !

Too many people (watch this thread do it .. ) can't help but add; "In other words ... " .... words

While I appreciate the discussion and the attempt to answer the question, it was not answered. Saying that The Son was neither created or made and then saying that he was begotten by The Father are mutually exclusive statements. If both Beings are eternal then how can one beget the other.

The concept of the Holy Trinity has been a controversy since it was codified in Nicea in 325AD. The major arguments were that Nicea said that Christ was God and that God was God, that Christ was not made but begotten of God The Father, that since Christ came from the Father He was also God. Then Nicea went further to explain that God and Christ are of one body or of the same substance, and further to say that God The Father and Christ the son were both eternal.

I personally find these statements illogical. I don't see how Christ could be begotten AND be eternal, I believe the terms eternal and begotten are mutually exclusive. If a King has a son, his first son, he becomes king. He isn't born a king although he is born to become a king. He has the substance of being a king when he is born because he is begotten by a king.

Christ and God The Father are not the same being. Christ prayed to His Father in the garden and asked that the bitter cup be removed but then decided to do His Fathers will. While Christ did the bidding of His Father and sacrificed Himself for us His Father also sacrificed His Son.

All the above is not to say that I believe that Christ The Son of The Father was first begotten when He was born of Mary, I believe that He was with The Father from before time. What does before time mean? Good question but I believe it was at least before the creation of the earth. I also believe that all people were with God The Father before the creation of earth.

I believe, again, doctrine according to Joe, that Christ when He was born of Mary received a physical body and was no longer a spirit. After His death on the cross He apeared to many several times going back and forth between Heaven and earth, and even stated that He was not a spirit, He ate and drank with the Apostles to prove He had a body. When He left the earth to ascend to Heaven for the last time recorded in the Holy Bible He was seen by about 500 people and the two angels explained to those who saw Him ascend that He would come back in the same way. To me that means He has a body like mine only perfected to be incorruptible as Paul explained.

So who then is The Holy Ghost? Again the doctrine of Joe says that He is a personage of spirit, just like Christ was before being born of Mary. There is a difference though, Christ was the First Born of The Father while The Holy Ghost does the will of The Father and of The Son and testifies of Them both.

The doctrine of Joe says that God The Father and God, Christ The son are not of the same substance in that they do not share the same “body” if you will but are of the same substance like my father and I are of the same substance. When I look in the mirror now in my old age I see my father looking back from the mirror at me. I look like him because I am of the same substance, not his substance but they are the same.

How important is this argument? I don't think it very important. I think what is important is to realize that Jesus Christ willingly did the Will of His Father and came to earth, was perfect and therefore did not deserve to die or be punished for sin. I do not believe it was any easier for Him to be perfect than for me but He was AND He agreed to be punished in my place for my sins if I but acknowledge Him and try to follow Him. I am trying.

Because Christ was perfect and deserves no punishment He can stand before The Father and offer Himself to take the punishment of my sin for me. He does not have to do this. He will not do this for everybody, not everybody will ask Him too, not everybody will try to follow Him.

Christ says He will inherit EVERYTHING His Father Has. He also says that if we will follow Him, at least really try to follow Him that we will be joint heirs with Him AND be like Him. You can't inherit something you already have. At some point anyway Christ did not have all that The Father has but would inherit it, that alone tells me that Christ and God The Father are two individuals and that Christ anyway has progressed from one condition to another.

Non Biblical?

Consider yourself corrected.

Matthew 28

18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

__________________________________________________________

And just where is the word “Trinity” in these verses. And these verses are after the resurrection and indeed after Christ did inherit all that The Father had. The very fact that “All Authority” had been given to Him meant that prior to that or at least at some time He didn’t have that “All Authority” which pretty much said He wasn’t always God.

When I would travel for the company I worked for I would go in the name of my company owners. they weren’t all the same however.

Your reasoning does not explain the following passage from 1 Cor 15:22-28:

22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

It seems to me that Jesus is still teaching that the Father is greater.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.