Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Why Does Jesus Call the Father Greater If We Teach That the Members of the Trinity Are Equal?
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 05-23-16 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 05/24/2016 6:49:46 AM PDT by Salvation

Why Does Jesus Call the Father Greater If We Teach That the Members of the Trinity Are Equal?

May 23, 2016

blog5-23-2016

Many of you know that I write the Question and Answer column for Our Sunday Visitor. Given the celebration of Trinity Sunday this past Sunday, I thought I might reproduce here on the blog a question/answer regarding the Trinity. It is a fairly common question; perhaps you have it, too. Remember that my answers in the column are required to be brief.

We read in a recent Sunday Gospel (May 1, 2016) that Jesus says that the Father is greater than He (Jn 14:28). Since we are all taught that each Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity fully possesses the nature of God, equally to be adored and glorified, what did Jesus mean by such a statement?” – Dick Smith, Carrolton, TX.

Theologically, Jesus means that the Father is the eternal source in the Trinity. All three persons of the Trinity are co-eternal, co-equal, and equally divine. But the Father is the Principium Deitatis (the Source in the Deity).

Hence, Jesus proceeds from the Father from all eternity. He is eternally begotten of the Father. In effect, Jesus is saying, “I delight that the Father is the eternal principle or source of my being, even though I have no origin in time.”

Devotionally, Jesus is saying that He always does what pleases His Father. Jesus loves His Father; He’s crazy about Him. He is always talking about Him and pointing to Him. By calling the Father greater, He says (in effect), “I look to my Father for everything. I do what I see Him doing (Jn 5:19) and what I know pleases Him (Jn 5:30). His will and mine are one. What I will to do proceeds from Him. I do what I know accords with His will.”

So although the members of the Trinity are all equal in dignity, there are processions in the Trinity, such that the Father is the source, the Son eternally proceeds from Him (Jn 8:42), and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father and the Son as from one principal (Jn 15:26).

St Thomas speaks poetically of the Trinity as follows:

Genitori, Genitoque … Procedenti ab utroque … compar sit laudautio

(To the One Who Begets, and to the Begotton One, and to the One who proceeds from them both, be equal praise.)

The Athanasian Creed says the following regarding these processions:

The Father is made by none, neither created nor begotten.

The Son is of the Father alone, neither made nor created, but begotten.

The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, not made, nor created, nor begotten, but he proceeds from them.

So although equal, processions do have an order. The Father is “greater” (as source), but is equal in dignity to Son and Holy Spirit.

Please consider subscribing to Our Sunday Visitor. I also write for the National Catholic Register. These are two great publications that deserve your support.

And while I am pointing out my “extra-blogical” activities, I also ask you to consider coming to the Holy Land in March of 2017 with me and Patrick Coffin of Catholic Answers.


TOPICS: Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; History; Mainline Protestant; Other Christian
KEYWORDS: catholic; msgrcharlespope
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 1,081-1,1001,101-1,1201,121-1,1401,141-1,154 next last
To: terycarl; Mark17
and NO, Mary did not have 6 children.....if you think that she did, name them and show ANY iota of evidence that they existed.

Have you read a Bible lately?

1,121 posted on 07/08/2016 11:41:09 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1116 | View Replies]

To: terycarl

Pretty poor backpedaling there.


1,122 posted on 07/08/2016 11:43:44 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1106 | View Replies]

To: metmom

Lately?


1,123 posted on 07/09/2016 5:37:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1121 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

How about Never, on a Sunday?


1,124 posted on 07/09/2016 5:49:08 AM PDT by 7MMmag ( ...itty-bitty hole goin' in, big hole goin' out. bullets that spin and explode sold separately)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1123 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

Magic Thinking delivers the bliss of ignorance.


1,125 posted on 07/09/2016 7:38:10 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Democrats bait then switch; their fishy voters buy it every time.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1123 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
Magic Thinking delivers the bliss of ignorance.

My opinion is, at the end of one's life, that bliss of ignorance, turns to pure, stark raving terror.

1,126 posted on 07/10/2016 2:04:51 AM PDT by Mark17 (The love of God, how rich and pure, how measureless and strong. It shall forevermore endure.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1125 | View Replies]

Comment #1,127 Removed by Moderator

To: Mark17

Indeed ... what a terrifying thing, to reach the end of life and discover that striving to obtain salvation has insulted The Grace of God in Christ, bestowed by faith alone, for no merit on one’s part. Satan’s greatest accomplishment is convincing humans that they can strive and obtain Grace, for this prideful attitude at once insults the Glory of Christ’s sacrifice for us and for our salvation.


1,128 posted on 07/10/2016 10:06:38 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Democrats bait then switch; their fishy voters buy it every time.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1126 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
Yep, thinking one can do good works, and strive to attain Heaven, really is an insult to the true grace of God. Most likely it will end with weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Have you committed the sin of presumption today? Of course, you know that means you enjoy the gift of God, and revel in His assurance of salvation. That's the only sin I love to commit. 😄😄😆😎 If others have no assurance of salvation, that's on them. 😇
1,129 posted on 07/10/2016 2:36:58 PM PDT by Mark17 (The love of God, how rich and pure, how measureless and strong. It shall forevermore endure.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1128 | View Replies]

To: metmom
Mary of the Bible certainly did have other children... ..

Nope..she certainly may have had step children by Joseph's first marriage but cousins, because there was really no word for them were usually referred to as brothers. Joseph was much older than Mary are may or may not have been able to sire further children.. whatever, prottys will say just about anything as long as it contradicts Catholic teaching. I don't see where this is that important a point anyway....one way or the other. When people make bad decisions they will do just about anything to justify that decision....usually doesn't work.

1,130 posted on 07/10/2016 8:59:16 PM PDT by terycarl (COMMON SENSE PREVAILS OVER ALL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1120 | View Replies]

To: Mark17
Yep, thinking one can do good works, and strive to attain Heaven, really is an insult to the true grace of God. Most likely it will end with weeping and gnashing of teeth. Have you committed the sin of presumption today? Of course, you know that means you enjoy the gift of God, and revel in His assurance of salvation. That's the only sin I love to commit. 😄😄😆😎 If others have no assurance of salvation, that's on them. 😇

You have a very unusual line of thinking...I assume it works for you but I don't see how??????

You get to do things anyway that you see fit.....there seems to be no right or wrong, you are already saved so what's the difference what you do.....O.K. I guess, sounds like a great lifestyle to me.....what could possibly go wrong???

1,131 posted on 07/10/2016 9:04:27 PM PDT by terycarl (COMMON SENSE PREVAILS OVER ALL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1129 | View Replies]

To: terycarl; metmom; MHGinTN; Elsie; knarf
You have a very unusual line of thinking...I assume it works for you but I don't see how??????

Yes, it works for me. If it doesn't work for you, then my opinion is, maybe 1 Corinthians 2:14 applies.

You get to do things anyway that you see fit.....there seems to be no right or wrong, you are already saved so what's the difference what you do

I disagree bro. This has been explained to you about 57 million times. My question would be: were you listening? If not, then it might be possible that 1 Corinthians 2:14 applies again. 😖👎😩

1,132 posted on 07/11/2016 1:26:50 AM PDT by Mark17 (The love of God, how rich and pure, how measureless and strong. It shall forevermore endure.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1131 | View Replies]

To: terycarl; metmom; MHGinTN; knarf
Nope..she certainly may have had step children by Joseph's first marriage but cousins, because there was really no word for them were usually referred to as brothers

I disagree bro. I doubt Joseph had a previous marriage. I heard a rumor that Joseph was actually younger than Mary. 😆 You must have missed Metmom's post 1120. I understood it perfectly. It was very detailed, and accurate, very accurate, meaning the brothers and sisters of Jesus had the same mother. They were half brothers and sisters of Jesus.

prottys will say just about anything as long as it contradicts Catholic teaching. I don't see where this is that important a point anyway....one way or the other.

I disagree bro. All we need to do is rightly divide the word of truth, and it contradicts Catholic teaching. Rightly dividing the word of truth, means correctly interpreting the Bible. That's what we do, Interpret it correctly. 😀 You say it doesn't matter one way or the other. I disagree bro. It matters, because Joseph and Mary did the evil deed (sex) and therefore, Mary was not the ever virgin,that some people claim, and is not the demigoddess that some people claim. She was not sinless, as some people claim. That's why it's important. People can believe whatever their little hearts want, but they ARE responsible for whether they are right or wrong.
Remember, we don't want to do any weeping and gnashing of teeth.

1,133 posted on 07/11/2016 2:41:15 AM PDT by Mark17 (The love of God, how rich and pure, how measureless and strong. It shall forevermore endure.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1130 | View Replies]

To: Mark17; metmom; terycarl
metmom's 1120 is phenomenally simple and understandable ...

What's tc's problem ?

1,134 posted on 07/11/2016 2:49:52 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true ... and it ticks people off)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1133 | View Replies]

To: knarf
I don't know bro. Maybe things are spiritually discerned. 😄
1,135 posted on 07/11/2016 3:57:03 AM PDT by Mark17 (The love of God, how rich and pure, how measureless and strong. It shall forevermore endure.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1134 | View Replies]

To: terycarl
Joseph was much older than Mary...<{P>Oh?

And where is your EVIDENCE for this claim?

1,136 posted on 07/11/2016 4:44:56 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1130 | View Replies]

To: terycarl
prottys will say just about anything as long as it contradicts Catholic teaching.

No, TC: we post SCRIPTURE that refutes Rome's claims.

1,137 posted on 07/11/2016 4:45:45 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1130 | View Replies]

To: terycarl
You get to do things anyway that you see fit.....there seems to be no right or wrong, you are already saved you have a priest to 'confess' to so what's the difference what you do.....O.K. I guess, sounds like a great lifestyle to me.....what could possibly go wrong???
1,138 posted on 07/11/2016 4:47:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1131 | View Replies]

To: Mark17

I wonder; after the penitent is done ‘confessing’ if the priest EVER says, “Go and sin no more.”?

instead of fifty Hail Mary’s and 300 candles need to be lit.


1,139 posted on 07/11/2016 4:48:58 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1132 | View Replies]

To: knarf
What's tc's problem ?

Blinded by the 'glories' of Rome.

1,140 posted on 07/11/2016 4:49:59 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1134 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 1,081-1,1001,101-1,1201,121-1,1401,141-1,154 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson