Posted on 05/21/2016 8:38:01 AM PDT by Salvation
Q. Many of our Protestant brethren say that, before Jesus comes, there will be a rapture wherein all the faithful will be taken up, I guess, to meet Him in the sky. When I tell them that the Bible says we will “see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven” (Mt 24:30) and “he will send his angels ... and they will gather his elect from the four winds” (Mt 24:31), and then ask them who will be left to “gather” if everyone has previously been “raptured,” they say it will be the Jews. What is the Church’s teaching on this? Will there even be such a thing as the rapture? I’m confused! Any light you can shed on the subject will be greatly appreciated!
Rich Willette, Springfield, Vt.
A. The notion of rapture (a Latin word that means to be snatched away) is a very novel concept among certain (not all) evangelicals. It is a notion less than 150 years old and finds no real support in the biblical text as you point out. Fundamentally, the theory asserts that before the final tribulations of the last times, faithful Christians will be snatched away. Rapture theorists disagree about the exact moment of the snatching. Some say it will be pre-tribulation, others midway through the tribulations, and some even say post-tribulation.
The root text for evangelicals who hold rapture theory is a text from the First Letter to the Thessalonians: “Indeed. we tell you this, on the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will surely not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore, console one another with these words” (4:15-18).
The context is the second coming of Christ. There are not two second comings taught in Scripture, but rapture theory posits two — the one described in First Thessalonians and another one, some 1,000 years later. Note, too, that in First Thessalonians there is no mention of some people being left behind. There is no mention of a 1,000-year reign. Nor does St. Paul indicate that what he is describing here is a different coming of Christ, distinct from other texts in the Gospel wherein Christ describes His own second coming.
Thus we are left with a text that simply does not support what rapture theorists say. They further strive to unnaturally stitch this account with other texts in the Book of Revelation. The result is a highly debatable account of the last days that even rapture theorists hotly debate in terms of the details. The whole enterprise amounts to an attempt to shoehorn biblical passages into rapture theory that more clearly call it into question. To say the “elect” are merely the Jews is speculative at best and fanciful and contrived at worst.
As for Catholic teaching on these matters, the Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes it as follows: “Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers [see Lk 18:8; Mt 24:12]. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the ‘mystery of iniquity’ in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh. [see 2 Thes 2:4-12; 1 Thes 5:2-3; 2 Jn 7; 1 Jn 2:18-22]” (No. 675).
You are wrong. Again!
I sent you a PM documenting, I wouldn’t want to be accused to crossposting. You might ask metmom why she would not give an answer.
verga will!
He'll toss ANYTHING against the wall to see if it sticks.
$2.00 a pound
Get 'em afore they start to smell...
Why do prots worship[ the Bible, why do they go off on tangents to push their agenda, why do they hijack threads thinking they have an opinion worth something?
In a time of universal church corruption - leaving it is what the BIBLE recommends.
Come on...
Show the rest of us!
You are very good at leaving off pertinent part of quotes. I guess I was correct to be suspicious. thank you for proving me correct. AGAIN!
Someone should be careful now, catholic haughty is showing through.
Back Attacha
I’m not Catholic, thanks be to God.
You might consider policing your own house before you take shots at us. This thread alone could use some of your “keen insight” on non-Catholic behavior.
Are you WILLING to show your 'evidence' or not?
You are very good at complaining.
Are you WILLING to show your 'evidence' or not?
That the fullness of Truth can find its origin (it's "seeds") in earlier thoughts and beliefs is certainly a true statement. But where in the writings of Ribera, Alcazar, or Bellarmine does one purport to find a hint of a Pre-Trib Rapture? They are known to have espoused a "futurist" view of Revelation and other Bible prophecy. But a futurist view of Biblical prophecy doesn't necessarily entail a Pre-Trib Rapture.
There has been one poster on this thread who claimed the PTR can be found in the writings of the Early Church Fathers. To say the least, said poster has failed in trying to substantiate that claim -- even to the point of making an attempt.
You're trying to put the PTR about a Millenium later (still late, though earlier than Margaret MacDonald). Though the proof that any of these men give credence to that is still lacking.
What in their writings supports a view of the PTR?
ealgeone; metmom, silence prove me correct.
Proves you correct on what?
As stated before, we cannot confirm or deny what you may or may not have seen regarding your, and so far, only your allegation that some small number of individuals may or may not be worshiping the Bible. Your claim continues to rest on hearsay evidence.
However, with catholicism there is more than ample evidence to show catholics worship Mary in thought, deed and action which has been shown on more than one ocassion in these threads.
The fact that you are somehow trying to say some may or may not worship the Bible is confirming that catholics worship Mary. It reminds me of the argument little kids, and some adults, use in saying "johnny did it so I did it" in an effort to somehow excuse their behavior.
Christianity condemns all form of idol worship. Be it Mary, the Bible, or whatever topic you want to insert.
It is catholicism that continues to advance this action of Mary worship with the rcc's blessings and admonition. That is the real error.
THAT is the only bottom line we need to worry about.
Catholics do not worship Mary anyone that says otherwise is a LIAR or an imbecile.
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