Posted on 05/21/2016 8:38:01 AM PDT by Salvation
Q. Many of our Protestant brethren say that, before Jesus comes, there will be a rapture wherein all the faithful will be taken up, I guess, to meet Him in the sky. When I tell them that the Bible says we will “see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven” (Mt 24:30) and “he will send his angels ... and they will gather his elect from the four winds” (Mt 24:31), and then ask them who will be left to “gather” if everyone has previously been “raptured,” they say it will be the Jews. What is the Church’s teaching on this? Will there even be such a thing as the rapture? I’m confused! Any light you can shed on the subject will be greatly appreciated!
Rich Willette, Springfield, Vt.
A. The notion of rapture (a Latin word that means to be snatched away) is a very novel concept among certain (not all) evangelicals. It is a notion less than 150 years old and finds no real support in the biblical text as you point out. Fundamentally, the theory asserts that before the final tribulations of the last times, faithful Christians will be snatched away. Rapture theorists disagree about the exact moment of the snatching. Some say it will be pre-tribulation, others midway through the tribulations, and some even say post-tribulation.
The root text for evangelicals who hold rapture theory is a text from the First Letter to the Thessalonians: “Indeed. we tell you this, on the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will surely not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore, console one another with these words” (4:15-18).
The context is the second coming of Christ. There are not two second comings taught in Scripture, but rapture theory posits two — the one described in First Thessalonians and another one, some 1,000 years later. Note, too, that in First Thessalonians there is no mention of some people being left behind. There is no mention of a 1,000-year reign. Nor does St. Paul indicate that what he is describing here is a different coming of Christ, distinct from other texts in the Gospel wherein Christ describes His own second coming.
Thus we are left with a text that simply does not support what rapture theorists say. They further strive to unnaturally stitch this account with other texts in the Book of Revelation. The result is a highly debatable account of the last days that even rapture theorists hotly debate in terms of the details. The whole enterprise amounts to an attempt to shoehorn biblical passages into rapture theory that more clearly call it into question. To say the “elect” are merely the Jews is speculative at best and fanciful and contrived at worst.
As for Catholic teaching on these matters, the Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes it as follows: “Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers [see Lk 18:8; Mt 24:12]. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the ‘mystery of iniquity’ in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh. [see 2 Thes 2:4-12; 1 Thes 5:2-3; 2 Jn 7; 1 Jn 2:18-22]” (No. 675).
Catholics die, then get un-raptured into purgatory for an indefinite period.
Bookmaark
The blood of Christ has cleansed AAALL those born from above, so they have passed from condemnation unto life and are not standing for Judgment at the Great White Throne. These redeemed return with Jesus to the Earth at the end of the Tribulation. They left when the Church Age ended just before the seventieth week of Daniel.
There’s NOTHING I can do for them once I’m gone and just what makes you think that whatever the Christians may set up for the unbelievers will get to those for whom it is intended?
Either the government is going to seize all the assets or someone is going to come along and steal it and sell it on the black market.
THEY CAN HAVE ANYTHING IN MY HOUSE THAT I AM NO LONGER GOING TO NEED.
Why do you keep ignoring THAT?
A non sequitur among many non sequiturs. Did you read what JESUS said in the Upper Room Discourse (specifically John 14), about coming and taking believers to Himself TO RETURN TO THE FATHER’S HOUSE?
You dont know how to rightly divide the word.
In
Oh?
Genesis 5:24
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
2 Kings 2:1-12
English Standard Version (ESV)
1 Now when the Lord was about to take Elijah up to heaven by a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal. 2 And Elijah said to Elisha, “Please stay here, for the Lord has sent me as far as Bethel.” But Elisha said, “As the Lord lives, and as you yourself live, I will not leave you.” So they went down to Bethel. 3 And the sons of the prophets who were in Bethel came out to Elisha and said to him, “Do you know that today the Lord will take away your master from over you?” And he said, “Yes, I know it; keep quiet.”
4 Elijah said to him, “Elisha, please stay here, for the Lord has sent me to Jericho.” But he said, “As the Lord lives, and as you yourself live, I will not leave you.” So they came to Jericho. 5 The sons of the prophets who were at Jericho drew near to Elisha and said to him, “Do you know that today the Lord will take away your master from over you?” And he answered, “Yes, I know it; keep quiet.”
6 Then Elijah said to him, “Please stay here, for the Lord has sent me to the Jordan.” But he said, “As the Lord lives, and as you yourself live, I will not leave you.” So the two of them went on. 7 Fifty men of the sons of the prophets also went and stood at some distance from them, as they both were standing by the Jordan. 8 Then Elijah took his cloak and rolled it up and struck the water, and the water was parted to the one side and to the other, till the two of them could go over on dry ground.
9 When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, “Ask what I shall do for you, before I am taken from you.” And Elisha said, “Please let there be a double portion of your spirit on me.” 10 And he said, “You have asked a hard thing; yet, if you see me as I am being taken from you, it shall be so for you, but if you do not see me, it shall not be so.” 11 And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 12 And Elisha saw it and he cried, “My father, my father! The chariots of Israel and its horsemen!” And he saw him no more.
I just got say wow! I don’t think I have ever seen anyone on FR twist scripture like you have in this thread. Read what you wrote in the post I am replying to with no rapture doctrine in your mind.
On which side of the International Dateline??
On which side of the International Dateline??
It 'could' not have happened at all; for there is NO evidence.
Yeah...
It is found in 4 John 1:1
I came back from the market with the food Mary wanted; but she was nowhere to be found..
No; it is LEGEND.
History may record that it has been assumed for centuries.
Not sure why you are posting John 14 in your attempt to hold onto the false teaching of a pre-trib rapture. John 14 give and whiff of evidence of a PTR.
They are Jews who died during the tribulation believing the gospel of the Kingdom, keeping the commandments and without taking the mark of the beast
Grammar correction: John 14 gives and not a whiff of evidence of a PTR.
Do the all caps mean you are agitated? Don’t be, this was not my intention.
“There’s NOTHING I can do for them once I’m gone and just what makes you think that whatever the Christians may set up for the unbelievers will get to those for whom it is intended?”
What makes you think it wouldn’t? Seems like you just err on the side of caution in this case.
“Either the government is going to seize all the assets or someone is going to come along and steal it and sell it on the black market.”
Oh. Yes, better not to even try to set anything up if it has absolutely no chance of ever helping. Ok.
“THEY CAN HAVE ANYTHING IN MY HOUSE THAT I AM NO LONGER GOING TO NEED.”
Of course.
“Why do you keep ignoring THAT?
Yes, good point. I recognize everything gets left behind, very good.
Freegards
Poor Noah...
First of all, the word "rapture" is found in the Bible, if you have the Latin Vulgate produced by Jerome in the early 400s.
The Vulgate was the main Bible of the medieval Western Church until the Reformation. It continues to this day as the primary Latin translation of the Roman Catholic Church. Yet, as we shall see later, it was Protestants who introduced the word "rapture" into the English language from the Latin raeptius.
It was Jerome's Vulgate that translated the original Greek verb harpaz used by Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which is usually translated into English with the phrase "caught up."
The leading Greek Lexicon says that harpaz means "snatch, seize, i.e., take suddenly and vehemently." This is the same meaning of the Latin word rapio "to seize, snatch, tear away." It should not be surprising to anyone, that an English word was developed from the Latin which we use today known as "rapture."
http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/rapture-myths
Yes I have read and studied it.
Do you know what the word “after” means as stated in Matt 24:29 ? Please read all the way to end of verse 31 for what is being taught by Jesus in answer to the question he is asked.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.