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A Look at the Early Catholic Church from the Acts of the Apostles
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 04-26-16 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 04/27/2016 8:41:02 AM PDT by Salvation

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To: rwa265
Catholics are in a better position to know what they mean by their actions than those who observe those actions.

Your book says:

1 Thessalonians 5:22
Abstain from all appearance of evil.


We non-Catholics 'observe' an awful lot of time wasted with Mary, when you could be dealing DIRECTLY with GOD.

121 posted on 04/28/2016 3:58:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Iscool

Doesn’t matter what’s in your heart...You have been conditioned to worship Mary while calling it something else...


Doesn’t matter what’s in your heart? Really?

The Lord told Samuel that He looketh at the heart.

But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart. 1 Samuel 16:7

I can only speak for myself. I have never been instructed to worship or adore Mary in the same way that I have been instructed to worship and adore God. It was always made clear that devotions to Mary where not on the same level as the worship and adoration that is due to God alone. Not once, not ever, was I ever told that I must worship Mary in any way, shape, or form.

These are some of the things that I had to commit to memory while growing up in the Catholic faith:

Q. Why did God make you?

A. God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in the next.

Q. What must we do to save our souls?

A. To save our souls we must worship God by faith, hope, and charity; that is, we must believe in Him, hope in Him, and love Him with all our heart.

Q. Which are the Commandments that contain the whole law of God?

A. The Commandments which contain the whole law of God are these two:

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, with thy whole soul, with thy whole strength, and with thy whole mind;
Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

Q. What is prayer?

A. Prayer is the lifting up of our minds and hearts to God to adore Him, to thank Him for His benefits, to ask His forgiveness, and to beg of Him all the graces we need whether for soul or body.

Q. How does the first Commandment help us to keep the great Commandment of the love of God?

A. The first Commandment helps us to keep the great Commandment of the love of God because it commands us to adore God alone.

Q. How do we adore God?

A. We adore God by faith, hope, and charity, by prayer and sacrifice.


122 posted on 04/28/2016 4:07:19 AM PDT by rwa265
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To: Elsie
But your premise is wrong. You are assuming that anything that is not mentioned in the Bible, is prohibited.

That is entirely unwarranted.

Want me to go through my list of 50 things we do at church, not mentioned in the Bible?

I'll start with one: where does it say we should get married in church?

123 posted on 04/28/2016 4:53:45 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It's like deva-vu all over again." - Yogi Berra)
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To: Elsie

No, Mary had a Plan A human nature: one that wasn’t warped, dying or dead from the inheritance of Original Sin. Otherwise, the angelic messenger would have addressed her as a sinner, not as “Full of Grace.” Nor would he have said “the Lord is with thee” -— not even Abraham or Moses was told that. The Lord was already with her -— grasp the implications of that!


124 posted on 04/28/2016 4:57:33 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It's like deva-vu all over again." - Yogi Berra)
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To: Salvation
Every time I see one of these threads the child's nursery rhyme "Here we go round the mulberry bush" begins to play in my head.
The non-Catholics will begin to scream "Catholics worship Mary" and we will explain to them that appearances do not define intention. They will rant that we give her all these titles and that none of them are Biblical.
Sooner or later some one is going to throw out a comment about Presbyter vs. Priest. Then another non-Catholic will chime in that the Eucharist is not Biblical....blah, blah, blah.

Catholic will do well to remember that you can lead the horse to water, heck you can even force his head into the water, but you just can't make him drink.

125 posted on 04/28/2016 4:59:25 AM PDT by verga (In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
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To: Elsie
Relying on Mary equals "You've got a friend."

We all rely on each other. That's what being members of the Body of Christ is all about.

Check out this short and tuneful video. Two minutes. CASTELLER. "I pray for you. You pray for me." I mean it in a heartfelt way to you, Elsie!

Tagline.

P.S. Go ahead, look at the video!

126 posted on 04/28/2016 5:01:26 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The eye can't say to the hand, I don't need you; the head can't say to the feet, I don't need you.")
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To: Elsie

You’ll have to give me some context. Has “is” been a problem word for you lately?


127 posted on 04/28/2016 5:02:14 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The eye can't say to the hand, I don't need you; the head can't say to the feet, I don't need you.")
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To: Elsie
Adoration vs veneration vs "having sex with" are THREE different things!

You can see why distinctions are important

128 posted on 04/28/2016 5:03:24 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The eye can't say to the hand, I don't need you; the head can't say to the feet, I don't need you.")
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To: Elsie

That’s a good one, too.


129 posted on 04/28/2016 5:03:45 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The eye can't say to the hand, I don't need you; the head can't say to the feet, I don't need you.")
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To: Elsie
(1) Nobody impugned your honesty. If they had, I'd be all over them, hammer and tongs.

(2) Do you think you can be saved outside of the Body of Christ? I don't know any Christian who believes that, but you might be different, so let me know.

130 posted on 04/28/2016 5:05:37 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The eye can't say to the hand, I don't need you; the head can't say to the feet, I don't need you.")
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To: Elsie
To have a fruitful discussion, you have to agree on definitions. I was defining in English (which is what I speak and write); and in this context, historic Catholic usage (which is actually the topic of discussion.)

The definition given by "trained translators" is great if we're talking about Greek usage.

131 posted on 04/28/2016 5:08:32 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The eye can't say to the hand, I don't need you; the head can't say to the feet, I don't need you.")
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To: Elsie

That’s actually a good comment. Transparency is distinguished from obfuscation. Two different things. Not synonyms. Right?


132 posted on 04/28/2016 5:09:37 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The eye can't say to the hand, I don't need you; the head can't say to the feet, I don't need you.")
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To: Iscool

Because you’re all over the internet trying to teach this junk to potential unsuspecting Christians...


So what? Every religion is all over the internet trying to teach their “junk” to others. There’s nothing wrong with that.

What’s wrong is when so-called Christians maliciously attack other Christians because they disagree with their sincere and deeply held beliefs. Jesus does not want those of us who love and adore Him to be mean spirited to one another. And there is too much meanspiritedness from all sides in these discussions. Be kind and gentle to one another as God is kind and gentle to us. And let Him be the judge of what is in our hearts.

Peace,
Rich


133 posted on 04/28/2016 5:16:06 AM PDT by rwa265
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To: Elsie

Could you provide the source for this version of the litany? I have not seen it listed in alphabetical order before. And I have never seen a version that included co-redemptrix.


134 posted on 04/28/2016 5:52:13 AM PDT by rwa265
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To: Elsie; Salvation

What error was the church of Philadelphia teaching?


135 posted on 04/28/2016 6:05:24 AM PDT by rwa265
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To: ADSUM; daniel1212

Adsum,
Daniel1212 has already demonstrated the scriptural teaching and the later historical development on this topic. To insert meaning that wasn’t present or developed is to misread Scripture.


136 posted on 04/28/2016 6:17:30 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (BREAKING.... Vulgarian Resistance begins attack on the GOPe Death Star.....)
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To: Elsie

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

The Catholic Church has proved to itself that devotion to Mary is good, and the Church holds fast to that good. Accordingly, the Church does not consider devotion to Mary to be an appearance of evil.


137 posted on 04/28/2016 6:27:33 AM PDT by rwa265
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To: Elsie; Mrs. Don-o
This excellent summary provided by Elsie is why Christians say Catholics worship Mary.
138 posted on 04/28/2016 6:31:27 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: rwa265
A. Prayer is the lifting up of our minds and hearts to God to adore Him,

And that is worship...

to thank Him for His benefits, to ask His forgiveness, and to beg of Him all the graces we need whether for soul or body.

but that is the same thing you do with Mary...You pray to her to watch over you, protect you...You ask her to provide grace to you...You ask her to give you salvation...That's all worship...

139 posted on 04/28/2016 6:42:19 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool
From what I've seen on these discussion boards the catholic has allowed themselves to be deluded into believing when they pray to Mary or rely upon Mary for salvation it is not worship nor is it the same as praying to God or relying upon God for salvation which is what Christians would call worship.

Words have to be redefined to mean something other than the normal meaning.

The context of the Greek is discounted too often as it collides with the catholic meaning of words.

140 posted on 04/28/2016 6:51:13 AM PDT by ealgeone
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