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A scriptural defense of the Perpetual virginity of Mary
Verga | 4/15/16 | Verga

Posted on 04/15/2016 7:25:23 AM PDT by verga

For years there has been disagreement between Catholics and some non-Catholic groups about the Catholic Church’s teaching on the Marian Dogmas, particularly, the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Mother. This will attempt to clear up some of the confusion.

Catholics have always held that Mary remained a virgin before, during, and following the birth of Jesus. Many non-Catholics contend that scripture proves that she did not and points to several instances of people being called brothers or sisters of Jesus.

When we study the scriptures carefully, paying particular attention to the order of sentences and view the language with precision, we see that the Catholic position is both logical and scriptural.

We see the annunciation in Luke Chapter 1. Luke 1:26-27 “In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin’s name was Mary.”
Notice that Mary is described as “betrothed”. For all intents and purposes this means that they are married, but the marriage has not yet been consummated. I will go into more detail about this further on.

The angel says to Mary in Luke 1:30-33 “And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.
Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus.
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. And of his kingdom there shall be no end.”
It is important to note here that the angel has not specified a time when or how this would occur.

Mary’s response is very telling Luke 1:34 “εἶπεν δὲ Μαριὰμ πρὸς τὸν ἄγγελον Πῶς ἔσται τοῦτο, ἐπεὶ ἄνδρα οὐ γινώσκω;” Luke 1:34 “And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man?” In both the Douay-Rheims and the King James version ἔσται is correctly translated as “shall” From Strong’s concordance 1510 εἰμί eimí (the basic Greek verb which expresses being, i.e. "to be"). Ἔσται is the future tense or “will be.”

Mary is not a 21st century city girl, She is a 1st century farm girl who understands the mechanics of procreation. Her response only makes sense if she had no intention of having a conjugal relation with the man she was already betrothed to. In the usual state of affairs a woman would expect to have children, but Mary is expressing amazement. Remember the angel has not yet told her that the child will be the literal Son of God only that he would be called the son of the most high and sit on the throne of David.

There are some who will say that the word betrothed meant that they were merely engaged, but scripture shows differently; in the Hebrew culture a couple became betrothed then, the husband prepared a house, returned for the wife, and took her into the house to consummate the marriage.

Jesus used the language of the bridegroom in John 14:1-3 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You have faith* in God; have faith also in me”.
2 “In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places. If there were not, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you?”
3 “And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back again and take you to myself, so that where I am you also may be”.
Months later after she is already living with Joseph on the way to Bethlehem Mary is still referred to as being betrothed,
Luke 2:5 “to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child.”

If they were not married but only “engaged” it would not have been necessary for Joseph to divorce her.
Matthew 1:19 “Ἰωσὴφ δὲ ὁ ἀνὴρ αὐτῆς, δίκαιος ὢν καὶ μὴ θέλων αὐτὴν δειγματίσαι, ἐβουλήθη λάθρᾳ ἀπολῦσαι αὐτήν.”
Matthew 1:19 “Whereupon Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing publicly to expose her, was minded to put her away privately”. The word ἀπολῦσαι from Strong’s concordance 630 /apolýō ("to release") is specifically used of divorcing a marital partner
We see the exact same term used when Jesus is discussing marriage and divorce in Mt 1:19, 5:31,32, 19:7-9.

At this point the non-Catholics will point out that this does not prevent them from having a conjugal relationship after the birth of Jesus and the purification ritual. I have shown above that Mary had no intention of entering into a conjugal relationship with Joseph and this is is due to her having entered into a “relationship” with the Holy Spirit.
This is evidenced in the language used in Luke when the angel explains how Mary is to conceive.
Luke 1:35 And the angel answering, said to her: “The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”

The term “overshadow” is nuptial language. We see similar language in Ruth and Ezekiel. Ruth 3:9 And he said to her: “Who art thou?” And she answered:” I am Ruth thy handmaid: spread thy coverlet over thy servant, for thou art a near kinsman.”
Ezekiel 16;7-8 “I caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field: and thou didst increase and grow great, and advancedst, and camest to woman's ornament: thy breasts were fashioned, and thy hair grew: and thou wast naked, and full of confusion
. And I passed by thee, and saw thee: and behold thy time was the time of lovers : and I spread my garment over thee, and covered thy ignominy. And I swore to thee, and I entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God: and thou becamest mine.”

At this point some will ask how could Mary be in a matrimonial relationship with both the Holy Spirit and Joseph, The answer is in the exact same way that all Christians are in that relationship with Christ.
Mary had both an earthly temporal nuptial relationship with Joseph and an eternal nuptial relationship with the Holy Spirit, just as all Christians hope to have with God. This comes from the Hebrew word אֲרוּסָה (kiddush) which means betrothed, The root of kiddush is קָדוֹשׁ (kadash) which means holy or sacred.

Matthew 9:14-15 Then the disciples of John came to Him, asking, "Why do we and the Pharisees fast, but Your disciples do not fast?" And Jesus said to them, "The attendants of the bridegroom cannot mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them, can they? But the days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast.” (See also Mark 2:18-20, Luke 5:33-35) Matthew 25:1 "Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom”
Isaiah 61:10 “I will rejoice greatly in the LORD, My soul will exult in my God; For He has clothed me with garments of salvation, He has wrapped me with a robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with a garland, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.”
John 3:29 "He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice So this joy of mine has been made full.
2 Corinthians 11:2 “For I am jealous of you with the jealousy of God. For I have espoused you to one husband that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.”
Revelation 21:2 “And I John saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”

The difference between Mary’s nuptial relationship with God and ours is that hers intersected here in the temporal world and resulted in the conception of the Man, Christ Jesus.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The question will still remain to some: How does this prevent Mary and Joseph from engaging in a conjugal relationship?
By law he was strictly prohibited from entering this type of relationship with Mary. To understand this we need to refer to the Old Testament, specifically the book of Deuteronomy and Jeremiah.
Deuteronomy 1:1-4 1 “When a man, after marrying a woman, is later displeased with her because he finds in her something indecent, and he writes out a bill of divorce and hands it to her, thus dismissing her from his house,
2 if on leaving his house she goes and becomes the wife of another man,
3 and the second husband, too, comes to dislike her and he writes out a bill of divorce and hands it to her, thus dismissing her from his house, or if this second man who has married her dies, 4 then her former husband, who dismissed her, may not again take her as his wife after she has become defiled. That would be an abomination before the LORD, and you shall not bring such guilt upon the land the LORD, your God, is giving you as a heritage.”

Jeremiah 3:1 “If a man divorces his wife and she leaves him and then becomes the wife of another, Can she return to the first? Would not this land be wholly defiled? But you have played the prostitute with many lovers, and yet you would return to me!—oracle of the LORD.”

In the The Babylonian Talmud: (Neusner vol 11 pg 123) It states that a man can not enter into a marriage contract with a woman who has been made pregnant by a former husband. If he does, he is required to give her a bill of divorce.and not remarry her.

We see this in 2 Samuel. Absalom had relations with ten of David’s concubines.
2 Samuel 16:22 “So a tent was pitched on the roof for Absalom, and Absalom went to his father’s concubines in view of all Israel.
After Absalom’s plot to overthrow his father failed David did the only thing he could. He took them back but he never had relations with them.
2 Samuel 20:3 David came to his house in Jerusalem, and the king took the ten concubines whom he had left behind to care for the palace and placed them under guard. He provided for them, but never again saw them. And so they remained shut away to the day of their death, lifelong widows.”

As we saw in Matthew 1:19 Joseph had planned to divorce her quietly, but again an angel intervened.
Matthew 1:20 “But while he thought on these things, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name JESUS. For he shall save his people from their sins.”
Now we need to compare the language used 1:18 and in 1:20 Matthew 1:18 “Τοῦ δὲ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ἡ γένεσις οὕτως ἦν. μνηστευθείσης τῆς μητρὸς αὐτοῦ Μαρίας τῷ Ἰωσήφ, πρὶν ἢ συνελθεῖν αὐτοὺς εὑρέθη ἐν γαστρὶ ἔχουσα ἐκ πνεύματος ἁγίου.” Sunerchomai συνελθεῖν to come together, to assemble, to marry to have marital relations.
Matthew 1:20 “ταῦτα δὲ αὐτοῦ ἐνθυμηθέντος ἰδοὺ ἄγγελος Κυρίου κατ’ ὄναρ ἐφάνη αὐτῷ λέγων Ἰωσὴφ υἱὸς Δαυείδ, μὴ φοβηθῇς παραλαβεῖν Μαρίαν τὴν γυναῖκά σου, τὸ γὰρ ἐν αὐτῇ γεννηθὲν ἐκ Πνεύματός ἐστιν Ἁγίου·”
Paralambanó παραλαβεῖν I take from, receive from, or: I take to, receive (apparently not used of money), admit, acknowledge; I take with me.To take charge of.

At this point Joseph became her guardian/ protector and legal spouse. This fulfilled the prophecy that the Messiah would come from the line of David of which Joseph was a member. Had he divorced her Mary would have been subject to at least ridicule and scorn and possibly stoning, which was the punishment for adultery. Joseph was able to fulfill all the temporal duties of a father that the Holy Spirit could not.
Further evidence of Mary’s perpetual virginity is seen Ezekiel.
Ezekiel 44:1-2 “Then he brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary facing east, but it was closed.2The LORD said to me: This gate must remain closed; it must not be opened, and no one should come through it. Because the LORD, the God of Israel, came through it, it must remain closed.”
The Sanctuary is the Temple and only God is permitted to enter through that gate. Jesus told us in John that He was the Temple
John 2:19-21
19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.” 20The Jews said, “This temple has been under construction for forty-six years, and you will raise it up in three days?”
21 But he was speaking about the temple of his body.
Logically if Jesus is the temple then Mary must be the eastern gate since she is how He entered the world.

There will still be some die hards that will say: But what about the “brothers” and “sisters” referred to in the gospels?
In John 19:26-27 we read 26 When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.”
27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.

Some have offered that his siblings were unbelievers. Paul describes James in Galatians 1:19 “But I did not see any other of the apostles, only James the brother of the Lord.” So much for James being an unbeliever if he was one of the Apostles. Also nowhere does James describe himself as related to Jesus.
Jude describes himself as “a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James” (Jude 1). If Jude is a sibling of Jesus, why does he talk in this weird way?
If any of them were to be unbelievers it would be a very temporary state of affairs. We see this in John 17:12 When I was with them I protected them in your name that you gave me, and I guarded them, and none of them was lost except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled.
The claim of unbelief came in John 7:5 For his brothers did not believe in him. During the feast of tabernacles (See John 7:2). That was 6 months prior to the Passover and both James and Jude were present for that.
Further Jesus would have known that they would to him based on his predictions of the behavior of others in the gospels.
Matthew 26:13 He knew the woman that anointed Him with oil would be remembered.
Matthew 26:34 He knew of Peter’s triple denial.
Peter's death in John 21:18-19, and the list goes on.
Even if they did not believe in Him they were still faithful Jews and had a responsibility that Jesus went into great detail about ignoring parents for “religious” reasons.

Mark 7:9-12 9 He went on to say, “How well you have set aside the commandment of God in order to uphold your tradition!
10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and ‘Whoever curses father or mother shall die.’
11 Yet you say, ‘If a person says to father or mother, “Any support you might have had from me is qorban” (meaning, dedicated to God),
12 you allow him to do nothing more for his father or mother.

We also know from the Gospel that Jesus was the First born of Mary, and siblings would be younger and it was absolutely unheard of in the middle eastern culture that a younger sibling would upbraid and older brother for any reason.

If non-Catholics are going to be consistent then are they willing to say that Joseph is the biological father of Jesus?
John 6:42 and they said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph? Do we not know his father and mother? Then how can he say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?
Luke 2:33 The child’s father and mother were amazed at what was said about him; Luke 2:48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished, and his mother said to him, “Son, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been looking for you with great anxiety.” Of course not, every Christian realizes that Joseph was His father by adoption not by nature.

Let’s look further at the gospels.
Matthew 13:55 “Is he not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother named Mary and his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas?”
Matthew 27:56 “Among them were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.”
Matthew 28:1 “After the sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.”
We see when we look at John that the biological father of these men is actually Clopas. John 19:25 “Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala.”
Notice that John refers to Mary the mother of Jesus and Mary the wife of Clopas as “sisters” Most families do not give uterine relatives the same first name. At best they are probably first cousins, which would make the sons of Clopas 2nd cousins to Jesus.

Paul states in Galatians 1:17-19
17 “nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; rather, I went into Arabia and then returned to Damascus.”
18 “Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to confer with Cephas and remained with him for fifteen days.”
19 “But I did not see any other of the apostles, only James the brother of the Lord.”

There were two Apostles named James. The first was the son of Zebedee He was killed by Herod (Acts 12:1-2). This James must be the son of Alphaeus referred to in Luke 6:15-16. Jude refers to himself as the brother of James in Jude 1:1
Three of the four have been ruled out as uterine brothers of Jesus. It should also be noted that not one of these “brothers” was ever referred to as either the son of Joseph or Mary. Also note that in Luke 2:41-52 when Jesus was lost and later found in the temple no mention is made of any other children.

The only conclusion that can be drawn, based entirely on the Scriptures, is that Mary did remain a virgin for her entire life.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; mary
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To: imardmd1
“The Bible speaks for itself, “scholar”, and it doesn't need any help from you or the heretristics except to proclaim its contents faithfully.”

Just in English, or English interpretations of Greek, or do other languages make the cut too? BTW, what are “heretristics”?

Do you know the difference between worship and veneration? If the bishops who established the canon of the NT venerated icons (hint; they did), does that mean that the canon of the NT was established by heretics or, Mohammedan like, they were simply automatons writing down what God directed? You know, I've always had a sneaking suspicion that protestantism sprang from the same heretical weed as Mohammedanism.

261 posted on 04/16/2016 3:37:41 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen and you, O death, are annihilated!)
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To: HossB86

“SCRIPTURE has been in existence since the Holy Spirit lead those to write what he inspired in them. You know... Paul’s Letters, Gospels, etc.

In answer to your query, however, Scripture tells us this (and since Scripture is the inspired, inerrant word of God, God is the one who “told” me):”

You mean like Mohammed and the Koran being dictated to him by Gabriel?


262 posted on 04/16/2016 3:39:58 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen and you, O death, are annihilated!)
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To: ealgeone

“So we take your word on this? Nope.”

OK; that’s up to you.


263 posted on 04/16/2016 3:40:52 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen and you, O death, are annihilated!)
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To: ealgeone
"Elsie has a wide range of pictures with catholics kneeling before images of catholic mary."

I'll bet she could find pictures of Orthodox bowing before icons of Panagia and kissing them too. I did it myself this morning. I'll likely do it before I go to bed.

You know, protestantism's intellectual forebears, the Mohammedan inspired and encouraged iconoclasts of the 7th & 8th centuries forbade the veneration of icons, but the Fathers of the 7th Ecumenical Council (787 AD) took care of that. Their proclamation is beautiful, profound, in Greek but since you don't know Greek, here it is in English:

""We define that the holy icons, whether in color, mosaic, or some other material, should be exhibited in the holy churches of God, on the sacred vessels and liturgical vestments, on the walls, furnishings, and in houses and along the roads, namely the icons of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, that of our Lady the Theotokos, those of the venerable angels and those of all saintly people. Whenever these representations are contemplated, they will cause those who look at them to commemorate and love their prototype. We define also that they should be kissed and that they are an object of veneration and honor (τιμητικη, Προσκυνητής), but not of real worship (λατρεία), which is reserved for Him Who is the subject of our faith and is proper for the divine nature, ... which is in effect transmitted to the prototype; he who venerates the icon, venerated in it the reality for which it stands."

264 posted on 04/16/2016 3:53:46 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen and you, O death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
I'll bet she could find pictures of Orthodox bowing before icons of Panagia and kissing them too. I did it myself this morning. I'll likely do it before I go to bed.

Then you would be in error as well.

4Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. 5Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me Exodus 20:4-5 Douay-Rheims

The Councils cannot trump the Word. Well, at least they don't in Christianity.

265 posted on 04/16/2016 4:05:56 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Kolokotronis
None that I am aware of, but by the time we had determined what was in and what was out of the NT, it had been going on for about 200 years...about as long as the veneration of relics had been going on.

Good thing uyou're not giving me instructions as to how to find the supermarket, let alone the way to Heaven. It is God through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit working through the prophets that wrote the Bible, and preserved infallible scripture through the Levites under the Old Covenant; and by means of the local churches, each of which was the pillar and ground of truth, whose Head is the Lord Jesus Christ. Of it, the government-backed statist church did pass it on, but not without twisting the contents here and there to fit their Alexandrian doctrinal concepts.

Not so for the Byzantine/Majority Textform, which survived the years without having to be resynthesized like your present eclectic Greek NT.

266 posted on 04/16/2016 4:11:30 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: Kolokotronis
their Alexandrian doctrinal concepts.

Tell me he's not talking about Antony, Alexander and Athanasius.

267 posted on 04/16/2016 4:15:52 PM PDT by Legatus (I think, therefore you're out of your mind)
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To: ealgeone

“Well, at least they don’t in Christianity.”

They trumped the iconoclastic Mohammedan form of it and the heretical Arian and Nestorian versions until the protestant revolution and being rejuvenated by Westerners angry with Rome, sadly persist in the West to this day.

Time to call it a night. I’ve enjoyed the discussion.


268 posted on 04/16/2016 4:19:24 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen and you, O death, are annihilated!)
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To: af_vet_1981
. . . virtually all of whom are English speaking Westerners?

I think you orgot about people like Watchman Nee, and the Waldensians, and the Italics, and the Carthinagians, and . . . oh, well.

269 posted on 04/16/2016 4:20:03 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: Kolokotronis

See you around.


270 posted on 04/16/2016 4:23:45 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Kolokotronis

Stop tossing out partial truths. In Polycarp’s letter to the Philipians he quotes from or alludes to passages from all 27 of what became our New Testament.


271 posted on 04/16/2016 4:46:16 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Democrats bait then switch; their fishy voters buy it every time.)
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To: HossB86; metmom; verga

What we have here are drive-by internet “theologians” attempting to undermine the solid Catholic teaching of two millennia. Not only is this irrefutable Catholic teaching as the Church founded by Christ and instructed to teach ONE truth for ALL times to ALL people, it is one embraced by many leading Protestant theologians who after a lifetime of study and teaching, and serious reflection converted to Catholicism. I’d rather take their research that the out-of-content cut and paste stuff done lifted by armchairs critics of the Church who get their stuff from anti-Catholic websites sponsored by semi-literate pastors and self described “theologians.”

Take for example Rev. Richard John Neuhaus. He was America’s pre-eminent Lutheran theologian. He knew his Bible-text and history like no other Protestant in his time having taught and written extensively on the subject all his life. When Rev. Neuhaus converted to Catholicism he said, “I have long believed that the Roman Catholic Church is the fullest expression of the church of Christ through time.”

Take another case Francis J. Beckwith. He is a “born-again” evangelical, a tenured professor at Baptist-affiliated Baylor University in Waco, Tex, was the president of the Evangelical Theological Society (ETS), an association of 4,300 Protestant theologians who resigned and rejoined the Catholic Church.

Why? Because after having reviewed the materials from both sides, he changes his position and reverts to Catholicism.

Then there is Ulf Ekman, the founder of Scandinavia’s biggest Bible school. He led a a congregation of some 4000 individuals, converted to Catholicism because his theological inquiry confirmed for him the indispensability of the Catholic sacraments.

Other examples abound.

There is Catholicism, and the there is every other piece of rot out there from Joel Ostend’s “prosperity” gospel to Rev. Wright’s “God Damn America,” gospel to the lunatic followers of Rev. Moon, Rev. Jim Jones, and Rev. David Koresh. Each person arrogates to himself and herself, like metmom and other do here, and to lift isolated scriptural passages for conducting a driveby superficial analysis that contradicts the towering intellectual tradition of the Church including a string of eminent Episcopalian (Cardinal Newman) and Protestant, (yes actual scholars, historians, and theologians) who upon examining the beliefs of the Catholic Church, in good conscience, abandoned their prior false convictions, and converted to Catholicism.


272 posted on 04/16/2016 5:21:05 PM PDT by Steelfish
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To: verga

Stop assuming I haven’t just because I reject your conclusions. You sounded like you were not aware of what “betrothal” meant. I’m not convinced you do even after it has been explained to you.


273 posted on 04/16/2016 5:33:53 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Kolokotronis
Is there something about Exodus 20:4-6 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

that escaped your notice or attention when you read it last?

274 posted on 04/16/2016 5:47:06 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Elsie
Maybe you don’t know this but the Roman Catholic church makes belief in the Marian dogmas (her sinlessness, her perpetual virginity and her bodily assumption into heaven) mandatory.

I imagine we'll get the usual suspects coming from the woodwork to refute this statement.

They can try but they would be lying. Whatever the Roman Catholic church declares dogmatically to be believed MUST be accepted or else one is guilty of a mortal sin to reject it. And...we know what they believe about people dying with a "mortal" sin on their soul.

275 posted on 04/16/2016 5:54:56 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: metmom

Here are the Catholic Ten Commandments:
http://www.beginningcatholic.com/catholic-ten-commandments.html

1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.


Exodus 20:4-6 didn’t make it through the final editing ............


276 posted on 04/16/2016 5:57:11 PM PDT by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
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To: metmom; Kolokotronis; Alex Murphy
It’s sure a good thing that Catholics tell us that they don’t worship Mary cause otherwise nobody would ever know that that sort of thing wasn’t worship.

Indeed. Where or where do we see anything even approaching this manner of adulation given to any created being in the Holy Spirit-inspired Scriptures, let alone even one word of praise to Mary in the life of the church.

As said before,

One would have a hard time in Bible times explaining kneeling before a statue and praising the entity it represented in the unseen world, beseeching such for Heavenly help, and making offerings to them, and giving glory and titles and ascribing attributes to such which are never given in Scripture to created beings (except to false gods), including having the uniquely Divine power glory to hear and respond to virtually infinite numbers of prayers individually addressed to them

Which manner of adulation would constitute worship in Scripture, yet Catholics imagine that by playing word games then they can avoid crossing the invisible line between mere "veneration" and worship.

Moses, put down those rocks! I was only engaging in hyper dulia, not adoring her. Can't you tell the difference?

Caths should only do (and I should do more of) what Mary and every believer in Scripture did in praying to Heaven, which was to pray directly to the Lord, not saintly secretaries. But they must truly become born again for that.

Instead, Caths basically say,

As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes... (Jeremiah 44:16-17)

277 posted on 04/16/2016 5:59:48 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: boatbums

I know you didn’t read it because I provided example’s of what it meant directly from scripture. Any one that is foolish enough to think betrothed means merely engaged, has never read the Bible for any depth.


278 posted on 04/16/2016 6:08:23 PM PDT by verga (Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.)
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To: Legatus

279 posted on 04/16/2016 6:17:05 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Kolokotronis
:) We Greeks are everywhere!

And y'all invented the Italians!

280 posted on 04/16/2016 6:17:56 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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