Posted on 08/14/2015 3:23:04 PM PDT by demshateGod
Good evening and happy Friday. I was recently shown the difference between Romans 13 in the King James, and Romans 13 in the NIV. These differences are stark and their meanings are fundamentally different. I'll give you the verses and let you find the difference.
[Rom 13:1-7 KJV] 1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute [is due]; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
[Rom 13:1-3, 5-6 NIV] 1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. ... 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
Fear not. Romans 13:3 holds the answer. Read that as a limit on authority.
I believe that evil has firmly rooted itself in the heart of this nation and it’s “leaders.” The words in two different translations of the Bible have nothing to do with that. Rather, the nearly complete rejection of God by a huge segment of the American population does. After all, if they reject God, how could a different translation of His Word matter to them?
That said, I believe that the proper translation can help those of us who actually believe better understand what is happening and why.
its* (for the grammar Nazis...)
But don’t you think “governing authorities” are totally different than “higher powers?” Who are the governing authorities of the US? Who are the higher powers?
How does this compare?
Romans 13
1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
2 Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,
4 for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
6 For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing.
7 Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.
8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
11 Besides this you know what hour it is, how it is full time now for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed;
12 the night is far gone, the day is at hand. Let us then cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light;
13 let us conduct ourselves becomingly as in the day, not in reveling and drunkenness, not in debauchery and licentiousness, not in quarreling and jealousy.
14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
I forgot to mention that what I posted is the RSV.
They are definitely different. Not wise enough and too tired to parse the who-is-who part right now. That said, I stick by my assertion that those differing translations have not led to this nation’s downfall. How could they? Those in power and those who put them there ignore the simplest aspects of the Word, let alone these nuances.
In other words, how can differing translations affect those who reject the entire Word outright? Hey, if most of this nation believed in EITHER TANSLATION, we would not be where we are.
This is something I see far too often: Those who believe in the Word getting cross-ways about a particular take on a particular verse. Now, is a search for the correct translation fruitful? Yup. But people get wrapped up in that instead of understanding that the enemy and his minions COMPLETELY discount the Word and all translations thereof.
I've read--and understood-- that passage in Greek. It says pretty much the same.
The problem is, the governments we have in the US are MUCH MORE than the definition of good government that Paul calls out here, and still Christians believe we must pay tribute to them to kill babies before they can take a breath, and to kill thousands overseas, and to pay their minions to take our freedoms away.
There's a great book on this subject that I have at home. I'll post later with a link to Amazon.
WHAT?
A division without a difference.
Quite correct, because the only other interpretation would be whitewash of government, which clearly is not intended (Nero was on the throne when Paul wrote this).
As a side note, WHAT government should be policing is spelled out way back in the Noahide covenant. It isn’t charged with ferreting out every hypothetical evil. This is not a license to unlimited scope creep.
Agreed.
This is a context governed rendition of what “higher powers” is referring to. As soon as you know you are talking about entities that are bearing swords (in Paul’s day) then there is no other take that makes sense. This isn’t angelic beings.
But it is good to remember that the Constitution starts out “We the People.” If they let a government run amok it is their own fault. And we can’t blame bible renditions for this. As was pointed out, if people do not care about the bible at all, it hardly matters whether the KJV or the NIV or the RSV or the Douay is what they are ignoring.
The key to understanding this is to put the Constitution in in it’s proper place.
That problem obviously existed in Paul’s day too, with Nero.
The take-away from this should be that governments should be respected to the extent that they police legitimate things. This does not forbid a revolution, but the new government is obligated to fulfill the same role. An anarchy is ungodly.
Re: “But don’t you think “governing authorities” are totally different than “higher powers?” Who are the governing authorities of the US? Who are the higher powers?”
An excellent question demshateGod. The solution is that you have to look at the context. The “context” is what comes before, and what comes after the passage in question.
Most translators after the KJV interpret “higher powers” to mean human government, human authorities, from the context of the verses that follow. If you read the whole chapter and paragraph, the meaning is clear.
Paul, the writer of the Letter to the Romans, is discussing government in general and the Christian’s responsibility towards it. Christian’s are to be law-abiding, peaceful citizens. Government was established by God to provide law and order, to stop evil and punish those who do evil. Disobeying the laws of the government is also disobeying God because He is the one Who established governments. However, there is more to it than that.
Though Paul does not discuss it in this passage, human government is secondary to the law of God. In other words, if a government makes a law that goes against God’s law, Christians must obey God rather than man. This principle is demonstrated throughout the Old and New Testaments - the midwives disobeying Pharoah’s order to drown all the Hebrew male children, Daniel disobeying Darius’s order to pray only to him, Shadrack, Meshach, and Abednego disobeying Nebuchadnezzar, Peter telling the ruling authorities in Acts 4:18-20 that they must obey God over man’s authority when it conflicts with God’s, etc.
So, one must be careful to look at the whole context of a passage when interpreting its meaning. Sometimes the context is a paragraph, a chapter, an entire book, or even the whole Bible. Otherwise, if someone takes a passage by itself out of context, one can come up with some very bad theology.
Gods Word will be preserved. The tyranny is because we have grown soft and cowardly under our great blessing, which is this nation.
We have allowed evil to grow instead of stamping it out. God gave us a guideline in the Bible and his Son showed us the way. We are in the very early stages of reaping our just reward for failing Him!
He who has ears, left him hear!
Amen, demshategod,
You hit the nail on the head.
The so-called “governing authorities” are still there because God put them there....In our case today, they are placed there as the beginning of judgment of the nation that has shaken it’s fist and spit in the face of God. When, not IF, He drops the hammer on us, it’s gonna be pretty darn ugly.
Meant that for vpintheak...sorry.
After years of flirting with the idea, yeah, I think you're right. But, I think tyranny is ungodly, too.
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