Posted on 05/22/2015 8:54:09 PM PDT by imardmd1
You don’t want to answer. That says a lot.
No, I don't wish to engage in useless arguments with someone who has no other purpose than to mock other's beliefs.
I never mocked them. I do disagree with them. As for you, you spoke to me first. I guess I am not suppose to have a reply to you? That’s fine. Maybe you should not frequent a thread about other peoples beliefs if you find them so offensive. But if you do frequent them and choose to reply, you need to realize that they might answer you back.
It’s hard to tell that a person does not “wish to engage....” when they leave you a post. Next time tell me you are just talking at me and don’t want a reply.
When I hear Catholics defend their church’s Mary doctrines and practices, and they say, for instance, that Catholics don’t worship Mary and only ask her intercession, they never address or even bring up the possibility of deception and self-deception.
There’s a difference between thought and deed. It’s not enough to say that Catholics don’t worship Mary. The deeds themselves have to bear out that claim. And the standard for judging whether or not the Catholic Church teaches worship of Mary has to be the Bible. Here is why. It is God’s Word, and one of its main lessons is on how we human creatures should and shouldn’t worship. Any Catholic tradition or teaching, if truly given by God, thereforre shouldn’t contradict it.
Now, what the Bible reveals is that man is made for worship, and that his proper object of worship is God Himself. Atheists deny that man needs to worship someone or something, but by their actions, they deny their stated beliefs as well. They all have idols and look to different things and people to save them, but they merely don’t acknowledge or recognize that fact.
The Bible also teaches that we aren’t to worship any part of the Creation or any creature, but God alone.
The Bible teaches us the differences between the Creator and His creatures, including His human creatures, created in His image.
It teaches us about God and His nature, and about man and his nature. It sings the praises of God, as the angels do in Heaven, and teaches us to do that, and offers hope to man for his salvation, his reconciliation to God through Jesus Christ.
The Bible thereby teaches us to direct our worship to God, and shows us what worship of Him is. It brings together our need to worship with revelations of who He is and what He’s like. It says over and over that there is no one like God (googling that will bring up many verses), with the lesson being and demonstrated over and over that we are to repent of the sin of putting our trust in people and things, and turn to Him alone. No one else is like Him.
So, passages like these following, from “The Glories of Mary,” by Alphonse Liguori, the recognized Catholic “saint” and “Doctor of the Church,” are incompatible with what the Bible teaches. In the Bible, such descriptions are used totally and exclusively for God. They are considered God’s hallmarks, the very things that make distinguishing between God and everyone and everything else, a “no-brainer.”
***St. Bernard, speaking of the great compassion of Mary towards us poor creatures, says, “that she is the land overflowing with milk and honey promised by God” (”Terra repromissionis, Maria, lacte et melle manans”—In Salve Reg. s. 3). Hence St. Leo observes, “that the Blessed Virgin has so merciful a heart, that she deserves not only to be called merciful, but mercy itself” (”Maria adeo praedita est misericordiae visceribus, ut, non tantum misericors, sed ipsa Misericordia dici promereatur”).***
***And “What safer refuge,” says the devout Thomas à Kempis, “can we ever find than the compassionate heart of Mary? there the poor find a home, the infirm a remedy, the afflicted relief, the doubtful counsel, and the abandoned succor” (”Non est tutior locus ad latendum, quam sinus Mariae; ibi pauper habet domicilium; ibi infirmus invenit remedium; ibi tristis accipit solatium; ibi turbatus meretur consilium; ibi destitutus acquirit juvamentum”—Ad Nov. s. 24).***
***And surely it cannot be otherwise, since all graces are dispensed at the prayer of Mary; and where this is wanting, there can be no hope of mercy, as our Lord gave St. Bridget to understand in these words: “Unless the prayers of Mary interposed, there could be no hope of mercy” (”Nisi preces Matris meae intervenirent, non esset spes misericordiae”—Rev. l. 6, c. 26).***
***But perhaps we fear that Mary does not see, or does not feel for, our necessities? O no, she sees and feels them far better than we do ourselves. “There is not one amongst all the saints,” St. Antoninus, “who can ever feel for us in our miseries, both corporal and spiritual, like this woman, the most Blessed Virgin Mary” (”Non reperitur aliquem Sanctorum ita compati in infirmitatibus, sicut Mulier haec, Beata Virgo Maria”—P. 4, tit. 15, c. 2). So much so, that there where she sees misery, she cannot do otherwise than instantly fly and relieve it with her tender compassion (”Ubicumque fuerit miseria, tua et currit et succurrit misericordia”—In Cant. c. 23). Richard of St. Victor repeats the same thing; and Mendoza says, “Therefore, O most Blessed Virgin, thou dispensest thy mercies with a generous hand, wherever thou seest necessities” (”Itaque, O Virgo Mater! ubi nostras miseries invenis, ibi mas, misericordias effundis”—In Reg. c. iv. n. 11, ann....)***
***”This Queen,” continues the same St. Bernard, “is so compassionate and benign, that when a sinner, whoever he may be, recommends himself to her charity, she does not question his merits, or whether he is worthy or unworthy to be attended to, but she hears and succors all” (”Non discutit merita, sed omnibus sese exorabilem praebet”—Ibid.). ***
***For as the moon enlightens and benefits the lowest creatures on earth, so does Mary enlighten and succor the most unworthy sinners” (”Pulchra ut luna, quia pulchrum est benefacere indignis”). And though the moon, says another writer, receives all its light from the sun, yet it works quicker than the sun; “for what this latter does in a year the moon does in a month” (”Quod sol facit in anno, luna facit in mense”—Joann. A. S. Gem. Summ. l. 1, c. 3). For this reason St. Anselm says “that we often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus” (”Velocior est nonnunquam salus, memorato nominee Mariae, quam invocato nominee Jesu”—De Excel. V. c. 6).***
***We should fully understand and always bear in mind a remark of St. Germanus, who says, “that the protection of Mary is greater and more powerful than anything of which we can form an idea” (”Patrocinium tuum majus est quam comprehendi posit”—De Zona Deip.). “How is it,” asks another writer, “that that Lord who under the old dispensation was so rigorous in his punishments, now shows such mercy to persons guilty of far greater crimes?” And he answers, “that it is all for the love of Mary, and on account of her merits” (”Quare parcit nunc mundo ipse Deus, qui olim multo his minora peccata acrius punivit? Totum hoc facit propter Beatam Virginem et ejus merita”—Pelbart, Stell. l. 11, p. 2, c. 2). “O, how long since,” exclaims St. Fulgentius, “would the world have been destroyed, had not Mary sustained it by her powerful intercession!” (”Coelum et terra jamdudum ruissent; si Maria suit precibus non sustentasset”—Pelbart, loco cit.).***
***”But now,” says Arnold of Chartres, “that we have the Son as our mediator with the Eternal Father, and the Mother as a mediatress with the Son, we have full access, and can go to God with entire confidence and hope for every good thing. “How,” he goes on to say, “can the Father refuse to hear the Son who shows him his side and wounds, the marks of his sufferings endured for sinners; and how can the Son refuse to hear his Mother when she shows him her bosom and the breast that gave him suck?” (”Securum accessum jam habet homo ad Deum, ubi Mediatorem causae suae Filium habet ante Patrem, et ante Filium Matrem. Christus Patri ostendit latus et vulnera; Maria Christo pectus et ubera”—De Laud. B. V.). St. Peter Chrysologus says, “that a gentle maiden having lodged a God in her womb. Asks as its price peace for the world, salvation for those who are lost, and life for the dead” (”Una Puella sic Deum sui pectoris capit hospitio, ut pacem terries, coelis gloriam, salutem perditis, vitam mortuis, pro ipsa domi exigat pensione”—Serm. 140).***
*** Let us, then, always have recourse to this compassionate Mother, and confidently hope for salvation through her intercession; for she, according to the encouraging assurance of Bernardine de Bustis, “is our salvation, our life, our hope, our counsel, our refuge, our help” (”Haec est nostra Salus, Vita, Spes, Consilium, Refugium, Auxilium nostram”—Marial. p. 1, s. 6). “Mary,” says St. Antoninus (P. 4, t. 15, c. 14, #7), is that throne of grace to which the Apostle St. Paul, in his epistle to the Hebrews, exhorts us to fly with confidence, that we may obtain the divine mercy, and all the help we need for our salvation.” Let us therefore go with confidence to the throne of grace: that we may obtain mercy, and find grace in seasonable aid (”Adeamus ergo cum fiducia ad Thronum gratiae, ut misericordiam consequamur, et gratiam inveniamus in auxilio opportune”—Hebr. iv. 16). “To the throne of grace, that is, to Mary,” says St. Antoninus; and for this reason St. Catherine of Sienna called Mary “the dispenser of divine mercy” (”Administratrix misericordiae”—Or. ini Annunt.).***
http://www.marys-touch.com/Glories/ChIX.htm
These passages are the norm in Catholicism for talking about Mary. They not only describe Mary in terms that the Bible uses to describe God exclusively, but they also do things like claim that prayers are more quickly answered when Mary’s name is used than Jesus’, and teach another, false Gospel, and repudiate the true Gospel, when it is said that Mary ransomed salvation for us “poor creatures” as the “price” she charged for “lodging God” in her womb. What the Bible consistently teaches us about God and man, and about God’s plan for our salvation, is directly rejected and obliterated in such a claim.
"Is she the Queen of Heaven?"
was to ask you:
"Tell me what that means to you."
Which was an honest effort to elicit from you an understanding of what you know about the subject.
You refused to answer my question, instead throwing out the smokescreen of:
"I don’t call her that, catholics do. What does it mean to you? Do you think she is the Queen of Heaven. It is not my term. Do you believe it or not?"
So I don't care to engage in any further conversation with you.
I meant to ping you, too, to 124.
Please see Post 124. It contains some passages from Alphonse Liguori’s “The Glories of Mary,” including the following:
***For as the moon enlightens and benefits the lowest creatures on earth, so does Mary enlighten and succor the most unworthy sinners” (”Pulchra ut luna, quia pulchrum est benefacere indignis”). And though the moon, says another writer, receives all its light from the sun, yet it works quicker than the sun; “for what this latter does in a year the moon does in a month” (”Quod sol facit in anno, luna facit in mense”—Joann. A. S. Gem. Summ. l. 1, c. 3). For this reason St. Anselm says “that we often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus” (”Velocior est nonnunquam salus, memorato nominee Mariae, quam invocato nominee Jesu”—De Excel. V. c. 6).***
***”But now,” says Arnold of Chartres, “that we have the Son as our mediator with the Eternal Father, and the Mother as a mediatress with the Son, we have full access, and can go to God with entire confidence and hope for every good thing. “How,” he goes on to say, “can the Father refuse to hear the Son who shows him his side and wounds, the marks of his sufferings endured for sinners; and how can the Son refuse to hear his Mother when she shows him her bosom and the breast that gave him suck?” (”Securum accessum jam habet homo ad Deum, ubi Mediatorem causae suae Filium habet ante Patrem, et ante Filium Matrem. Christus Patri ostendit latus et vulnera; Maria Christo pectus et ubera”—De Laud. B. V.). St. Peter Chrysologus says, “that a gentle maiden having lodged a God in her womb. Asks as its price peace for the world, salvation for those who are lost, and life for the dead” (”Una Puella sic Deum sui pectoris capit hospitio, ut pacem terries, coelis gloriam, salutem perditis, vitam mortuis, pro ipsa domi exigat pensione”—Serm. 140).***
http://www.marys-touch.com/Glories/ChIX.htm
meh.....non Biblical
untrue
Oh, good grief.......
I guess *Ask in my name* and *Come boldly to the throne of grace* don’t mean much to Catholics.
That's just weird......
It's so twisted....
Nonsense.
I don't have a statue of my mother in my garden or in a church, nor do I light candles to it or in front of it, kneel before it, bow down to it, or pray to it or her.
No need for the Holy Spirit when you have Mary......
Jesus taught us to pray to the Father as well.
No mention of going through mom.
Wait what?
It's our fault that Catholic vote pro-abortion, pro-homosexual marriage democrat?
Blame shifting if I ever saw it.
Get over it and take some responsibility for your actions.
Did you read the prayer to Mary in post 13?
That’s the same as how we ask someone else to pray for us or others?
I don’t think so.
Asking someone to pray with you about a matter is not praying TO them expecting them to do the miracle that’s needed, as Catholics do with Mary. For that matter, it’s not praying to them at all.
Changing the meanings of words is disingenuous and not a sound argument to support any position.
You're sure of that?
Do you know how many babies are ooops, didn't expect that one?
God never asked my mom's consent with He blessed he with my younger sister. She didn't want to be pregnant again.
Where was the *consent* in that?
Opppsssss They get in over their head so quickly
Ephesians 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
Please explain how Mary is not a Romanist deity?
Please tell us how we would know when a Romanist is worshiping and when he is "venerating " when watching him?
Full Definition of WORSHIP
1 chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors) 2
: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4 : extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.