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Why I am No Longer a Dispensationalist
Credo House ^ | May 21, 2015 | C. Michael Patton

Posted on 05/22/2015 4:54:44 PM PDT by OK Sun

My Dispensational Upbringing

I have been taught Dispensationalism from my mother’s womb. I was born in a dispensational environment. It was assumed at my church to be a part of the Gospel. There was never another option presented. It made sense. It helped me put together the Scriptures in a way that cleared up so much confusion. And, to be honest, the emphasis on the coming tribulation, current events that prove the Bible’s prophecy, the fear that the Antichrist may be alive today (who is he?) was all quite exciting. But what might be the biggest attraction for me is the charts! Oh how I love charts. I think in charts. And dispensationalism is a theology of charts!

Making Fun of Dispensationalism

The first time I came across someone who was not a Dispensationalist was in 1999. I am not kidding. It was the first time! I don’t think I even knew if there was another view. It was when I was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary (the bastion of Dispensationalism) and I was swimming with some guys who were at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Once they discovered I was a dispensationalist, they giggled and snickered. They made fun of the rapture, the sacrificial system during the millennium, and the mark of the beast (which, at that time, was some type of barcode). It was as if they patted me on the head and said “It’s okay . . . nice little dispensationalist.” I was so angry. I was humiliated. I was a second-rate theologian. They were “Covenantalists” (whatever that was). But they were the cool guys who believed in the historic Christian faith and I was the cultural Christian, believing in novel ideas.

(Excerpt) Read more at reclaimingthemind.org ...


TOPICS: Humor; Other Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: dispensationalism
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To: redleghunter
Who were the people hearing Peter's message at Pentecost and in Acts?

Acts 2:5 (AMP) - 5 Now there were then residing in Jerusalem Jews, devout and God-fearing men from every country under heaven.

Acts 2:8-11 (AMP) - 8 Then how is it that we hear, each of us, in our own (particular) dialect to which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and inhabitants of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and [the province of] Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and the transient residents from Rome, both Jews and the proselytes [to Judaism from other religions], 11 Cretans and Arabians too—we all hear them speaking in our own native tongues [and telling of] the mighty works of God!

Acts 2:14 (AMP) - 14 But Peter, standing with the eleven, raised his voice and addressed them: You Jews and all you residents of Jerusalem, let this be [explained] to you so that you will know and understand; listen closely to what I have to say.

Acts 2:22 (AMP) - 22 You men of Israel, listen to what I have to say: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man accredited and pointed out and shown forth and commended and attested to you by God by the mighty works and [the power of performing] wonders and signs which God worked through Him [right] in your midst, as you yourselves know—

Acts 2:36 (AMP) - 36 Therefore let the whole house of Israel recognize beyond all doubt and acknowledge assuredly that God has made Him both Lord and Christ (the Messiah)—this Jesus Whom you crucified.

Note carefully to WHOM was the message preached in Acts 2, and also what was preached during the time of Acts. Compare it to Paul's prison letters written after he received the Revelation from God - see especially Ephesians through Colossians.

The entire Bible is a revelation of Jesus Christ, who reveals the Father. The vast majority is written TO and ABOUT His chosen people Israel. They were to be the Light to the world. From the call of Abraham (more precisely Jacob/Israel) until the revelation of the Mystery, there were only two groups on Earth - Israel and the Gentiles (or nations). Jesus came to Israel ready to fulfill every prophecy, shadow, and type as their Messiah. He was rejected and crucified. He sent his apostles, empowered by the HS to preach to Israel once again for 40 years, and the nation still did not repent. Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the Jews were dispersed. The prophetic timeline regarding Israel was now postponed. Note that Stephen was teaching Jews and saw Jesus "standing" at God's right hand. (Acts 7:55) Jesus was ready to return, not sitting as he is in this age of grace. But Israel was "stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears" and resisting the Holy Ghost. (Acts 7:51)

Note the changing times...

Acts 13:44-48 (AMP) - 44 The next Sabbath almost the entire city gathered together to hear the Word of God [concerning the attainment through Christ of salvation in the kingdom of God]. 45 But when the Jews saw the crowds, filled with envy and jealousy they contradicted what was said by Paul and talked abusively [reviling and slandering him]. 46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out plainly and boldly, saying, It was necessary that God's message [concerning salvation through Christ] should be spoken to you first. But since you thrust it from you, you pass this judgment on yourselves that you are unworthy of eternal life and out of your own mouth you will be judged. [Now] behold, we turn to the Gentiles (the heathen). 47 For so the Lord has charged us, saying, I have set you to be a light for the Gentiles (the heathen), that you may bring [eternal] salvation to the uttermost parts of the earth. 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified (praised and gave thanks for) the Word of God; and as many as were destined (appointed and ordained) to eternal life believed (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Jesus as the Christ and their Savior).

Also in Acts 28, a final pronouncement in Rome to the Jewish leaders. Key verses quoted, read the entire passage for full context.

Acts 28:16-17 (AMP) - 16 When we arrived at Rome, the centurion delivered the prisoners to the captain of the guard, but Paul was permitted to live by himself with the soldier who guarded him. 17 Three days after [our arrival], he called together the leading local Jews; and when they had gathered, he said to them, Brethren, though I have done nothing against the people or against the customs of our forefathers, yet I was turned over as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.

Acts 28:25-29 (AMP) - 25 And as they disagreed among themselves, they began to leave, [but not before] Paul had added one statement [more]: The Holy Spirit was right in saying through Isaiah the prophet to your forefathers: 26 Go to this people and say to them, You will indeed hear and hear with your ears but will not understand, and you will indeed look and look with your eyes but will not see [not perceive, have knowledge of or become acquainted with what you look at, at all]. 27 For the heart (the understanding, the soul) of this people has grown dull (stupid, hardened, and calloused), and their ears are heavy and hard of hearing and they have shut tight their eyes, so that they may not perceive and have knowledge and become acquainted with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their souls and turn [to Me and be converted], that I may heal them. 28 So let it be understood by you then that [this message of] the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen [to it]! 29 And when he had said these things, the Jews went away, arguing and disputing among themselves.

The religious divisions of the past have no place in the Body of Christ, which is a spiritual Body. There is neither Jew or Gentile, but one Body with Jesus as the Head.

Also please reference 1 Corinthians 15 where Paul clearly states he, Peter and the other apostles preached the same gospel.

At the time the letter from Corinthians was written, they were preaching the resurrection. And even then, like now, there was disagreement - see Acts 11, 15, Galatians 2. Believers can have unity in Spirit, and still have differences in doctrine. However, God's Truth must ultimately prevail.

But something changes about the time of the Acts 28 announcement to the Jews in Rome. God gave Paul a Revelation that was HIDDEN IN GOD until revealed by Paul. The Blessing to Israel was always earthly, and was promised to be extended to Gentiles. (Genesis 12:3, Galatians 3:8) Now Paul was teaching something even better - a spiritual Blessing, and a Heavenly relationship IN CHRIST. Believers in this dispensation are neither Jews or Gentiles. They are called out from the world, made alive in Christ, seated in Heavenly places, blessed with every Spiritual Blessing, and incorporated into the Body of Christ with Jesus as the Head. ALL religious division has ended. All outward religion - priesthood, sacrifices, Temple, ordinances are unnecessary, as Believers are COMPLETE IN CHRIST.

The Body of Christ did not replace Israel. Every promise will be fulfilled in its proper time. The BOC was a Mystery, HIDDEN in God until revealed by Paul. Once this Truth is revealed to your spirit, you will understand why what was taught in the Gospels, and during the time of Acts, differs from the revelation Paul teaches in his later Prison letters.

If words have any meaning, Paul is clearly teaching something new. And for those of us who are not Jews, or Jews who are now Believers in the BOC, it is a wonderful revelation.

Ephesians 3:1-7 (AMP) - 1 FOR THIS reason [because I preached that you are thus built up together], I, Paul, [am] the prisoner of Jesus the Christ for the sake and on behalf of you Gentiles— 2 Assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace (His unmerited favor) that was entrusted to me [to dispense to you] for your benefit, 3 [And] that the mystery (secret) was made known to me and I was allowed to comprehend it by direct revelation, as I already briefly wrote you. 4 When you read this you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ. 5 [This mystery] was never disclosed to human beings in past generations as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles (consecrated messengers) and prophets by the [Holy] Spirit. 6 [It is this:] that the Gentiles are now to be fellow heirs [with the Jews], members of the same body and joint partakers [sharing] in the same divine promise in Christ through [their acceptance of] the glad tidings (the Gospel). 7 Of this [Gospel] I was made a minister according to the gift of God's free grace (undeserved favor) which was bestowed on me by the exercise (the working in all its effectiveness) of His power.

Was Paul lying when he said this revelation came directly from God and had never been revealed before? Does this in anyway sound like what Peter, James, and John, the apostles to the circumcision, taught in Acts?

Ephesians 3:8-10 (AMP) - 8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints (God's consecrated people), this grace (favor, privilege) was granted and graciously entrusted: to proclaim to the Gentiles the unending (boundless, fathomless, incalculable, and exhaustless) riches of Christ [wealth which no human being could have searched out], 9 Also to enlighten all men and make plain to them what is the plan [regarding the Gentiles and providing for the salvation of all men] of the mystery kept hidden through the ages and concealed until now in [the mind of] God Who created all things by Christ Jesus. 10 [The purpose is] that through the church the complicated, many-sided wisdom of God in all its infinite variety and innumerable aspects might now be made known to the angelic rulers and authorities (principalities and powers) in the heavenly sphere.

This was a Hidden Plan to restore Man to the status of Adam before the fall, who died spiritually when they sinned. Now that the Last Adam has come, Believers now can be led by the Spirit, and once again be one with God in Christ, not servants, or even just children, but one Body. There is Spiritual unity in the Body, even if the religious divide us by doctrine and the reasoning and traditions of men.

Ephesians 1:4-5 (AMP) - 4 Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him in love. 5 For He foreordained us (destined us, planned in love for us) to be adopted (revealed) as His own children through Jesus Christ, in accordance with the purpose of His will [because it pleased Him and was His kind intent]—

Ephesians 1:9-12 (AMP) - 9 Making known to us the mystery (secret) of His will (of His plan, of His purpose). [And it is this:] In accordance with His good pleasure (His merciful intention) which He had previously purposed and set forth in Him, 10 [He planned] for the maturity of the times and the climax of the ages to unify all things and head them up and consummate them in Christ, [both] things in heaven and things on the earth. 11 In Him we also were made [God's] heritage (portion) and we obtained an inheritance; for we had been foreordained (chosen and appointed beforehand) in accordance with His purpose, Who works out everything in agreement with the counsel and design of His [own] will, 12 So that we who first hoped in Christ [who first put our confidence in Him have been destined and appointed to] live for the praise of His glory!

Colossians 1:25-29 (AMP) - 25 In it I became a minister in accordance with the divine stewardship which was entrusted to me for you [as its object and for your benefit], to make the Word of God fully known [among you]— 26 The mystery of which was hidden for ages and generations [from angels and men], but is now revealed to His holy people (the saints), 27 To whom God was pleased to make known how great for the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ within and among you, the Hope of [realizing the] glory.

With Jesus resurrected, the Holy Spirit available to all, and now the Hidden Mystery revealed, God could truly enjoy fellowship with His New Creations IN Christ, and they could worship Him in Spirit and Truth.

Colossians 2:19-23 (KJV) - 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Religious hooey does nothing for you. Its all about what you believe, or even better, IN WHOM you believe. The outward show amuses the senses, but does little for the spirit.

The veil was torn in the Temple when Christ died. But throughout Acts, sacrifices continued, and many Jewish Believers remained "zealous of the Law". They even attempted to force the Law on Gentile converts. But now, all the ordinances are gone. The priesthood and Temple are both gone and unnecessary because Believers are the Temple of God, and made alive in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:1 (KJV) - 1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Note the position of Christ compared to what Stephen witnessed in Acts. Throughout the time of Acts, the emphasis is on the Earth and the promised Messianic Kingdom. Now, Believers look to Heaven, where we are seated in Heavenly places IN CHRIST. This is further confirmed when you compare the number of OT references in Paul's earlier books (Thessalonians, Galatians, Corinthians, Romans, Hebrews), to his later letters (Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Philemon, Titus, Timothy). In the former, there are almost 200 OT references. The latter, there are less than 10. Paul was unveiling a New Hope available to the Gentiles during this parenthetical time between Israel's rejection, and the coming Day of the Lord, when everything promised to Israel will be fulfilled.

Colossians 2:8-10 (AMP) - 8 See to it that no one carries you off as spoil or makes you yourselves captive by his so-called philosophy and intellectualism and vain deceit (idle fancies and plain nonsense), following human tradition (men's ideas of the material rather than the spiritual world), just crude notions following the rudimentary and elemental teachings of the universe and disregarding [the teachings of] Christ (the Messiah). 9 For in Him the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature]. 10 And you are in Him, made full and having come to fullness of life [in Christ you too are filled with the Godhead—Father, Son and Holy Spirit—and reach full spiritual stature]. And He is the Head of all rule and authority [of every angelic principality and power].

If theologians would ever actually study this passage, they would be done with religion. Believers are COMPLETE IN CHRIST. We've got people in churches working overtime attempting by their own efforts to become what God has already made them to be! For 2,000 years, the religious have been led astray by intellectualism and philosophy, never willing to simply believe God's word and say, "Thank You Father!"

The Judaizers and pagans are still actively working to put people in religious bondage, unwilling to Believe God's Word. The religious think Jesus' death and resurrection is insufficient. Instead, they want to perform some religious task, or in some fashion earn what was freely given to us by God. It takes humility, and a revelation of the profound Love God has for His children, to finally admit that you can do NOTHING except thank Him and praise Him for His Grace and Mercy.

I have heard hundreds of sermons, read theological opinions, and even sat through a few college lectures, where well meaning theologians twisted themselves into pretzels trying to prove your point. It simply can't be done. Only the Truth of God's Word will bring Light to the darkness. I encourage you not to take my opinion, or that of anyone else. Read Ephesians through Colossians slowly and prayerfully. Then turn to Acts, and Paul's earlier books written in that time, and do the same. You will note some differences between what was taught to Israel and the Gentiles at that time, versus what now belongs to the Body of Christ.

John the Baptist preached repentance and water baptism. He also said something better was coming - Jesus and a spiritual baptism. The time of Acts gave us, as Gentiles outside of Israel and the Covenant, a taste of what was to come. Paul would be called by God to reveal a higher Truth for us, a Revelation that was Hidden in God until revealed to the BOC of this dispensation. I will never be a Jew, and I am no longer a Gentile. I am a Believer, a child of God, made alive in Christ, blessed with every Spiritual Blessing and seated in Heavenly places in Christ. I am called out from the world to be part of the Body of Christ with Jesus as the Head. (see Ephesians 1-3) That is a very different position than where I would have been during the time of Acts. Its even superior to being simply "grafted into the olive tree" as explained in Romans 11, where it was a means to make Israel jealous. When the Holy Spirit unveils this Truth to your spirit, you will never be the same. And if you are like me, you will kick yourself for wasting so much time with religion, when you should be enjoying your place in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 1:17-23 (AMP) - 17 [For I always pray to] the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, that He may grant you a spirit of wisdom and revelation [of insight into mysteries and secrets] in the [deep and intimate] knowledge of Him, 18 By having the eyes of your heart flooded with light, so that you can know and understand the hope to which He has called you, and how rich is His glorious inheritance in the saints (His set-apart ones), 19 And [so that you can know and understand] what is the immeasurable and unlimited and surpassing greatness of His power in and for us who believe, as demonstrated in the working of His mighty strength, 20 Which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His [own] right hand in the heavenly [places], 21 Far above all rule and authority and power and dominion and every name that is named [above every title that can be conferred], not only in this age and in this world, but also in the age and the world which are to come. 22 And He has put all things under His feet and has appointed Him the universal and supreme Head of the church [a headship exercised throughout the church], 23 Which is His body, the fullness of Him Who fills all in all [for in that body lives the full measure of Him Who makes everything complete, and Who fills everything everywhere with Himself].

481 posted on 05/26/2015 10:27:20 PM PDT by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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To: Kandy Atz

Selah, and thanks be to God for clear teaching.


482 posted on 05/26/2015 10:48:37 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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To: Kandy Atz; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; CynicalBear; daniel1212; Gamecock; ...

Thank you!!!!

Keeping that for future reference.


483 posted on 05/27/2015 12:37:58 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Kandy Atz
Believers are COMPLETE IN CHRIST. We've got people in churches working overtime attempting by their own efforts to become what God has already made them to be! For 2,000 years, the religious have been led astray by intellectualism and philosophy, never willing to simply believe God's word and say, "Thank You Father!"

The Judaizers and pagans are still actively working to put people in religious bondage, unwilling to Believe God's Word. The religious think Jesus' death and resurrection is insufficient. Instead, they want to perform some religious task, or in some fashion earn what was freely given to us by God. It takes humility, and a revelation of the profound Love God has for His children, to finally admit that you can do NOTHING except thank Him and praise Him for His Grace and Mercy.

Boy, does that ever need to sink deep into our spirits.

God, save us from a religious spirit....

484 posted on 05/27/2015 12:43:31 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom
The religious think Jesus' death and resurrection is insufficient. Instead, they want to perform some religious task, or in some fashion earn what was freely given to us by God.

I can't imagine there is anyone around here, that would want us to earn Heaven, can you? 😂😇

485 posted on 05/27/2015 2:51:33 AM PDT by Mark17 (The love of God, how rich and pure, how measureless and strong. It shall forever more endure.)
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To: Kandy Atz; metmom; MHGinTN; winodog

Thank you, both Kandy Atz and winodog for your posts. I e-mailed you privately, but need to thank you on this thread. I am overcome right now with joy and relief. I was running out of ways to say it. And you showed up and just stated it beautifully. I pray God’s grace and peace on you and each member of the Body of Christ. Ours is a spiritual battle, and we must put on the whole armour of God in order to fight this fight. And when we are through, STAND.


486 posted on 05/27/2015 3:27:59 AM PDT by smvoice (I would explain it better, but I only know a few words...)
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To: Mark17

Mr mm and I can hardly earn a living.

I can’t imagine being good enough to EARN a place in heaven with God in all His holiness and purity.


487 posted on 05/27/2015 4:19:05 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Kandy Atz

Well done!! Bump to the top!


488 posted on 05/27/2015 5:07:30 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: editor-surveyor
>>You make a fool of your self by calling anyone a Karaite Rabbi.<<

It wasn't I who called him a Karaite Rabbi.

Roods history and associations are documented and speak for themselves.

489 posted on 05/27/2015 5:43:33 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: MHGinTN
>>Someone has chosen to believe Rood’s lies and is now all tied up in them. It will be extremely hard to break through such an shell of deception.<<

It amazes me that when clear evidence is presented the denials don't change.

490 posted on 05/27/2015 5:45:51 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Kandy Atz; melsec
"Religious hooey does nothing for you. Its all about what you believe, or even better, IN WHOM you believe. The outward show amuses the senses, but does little for the spirit."

The RF gives ample evidence on a daily basis that backs that up!

Thankyou for the good feed KA! Praise God! He considers us jewels,which says nothing about us but a great deal about Him!

ping to #481 mic!

491 posted on 05/27/2015 6:27:33 AM PDT by mitch5501 ("make your calling and election sure:for if ye do these things ye shall never fall")
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To: Kandy Atz
I will never be a Jew, and I am no longer a Gentile.

Are you male, female, or other ?

The Judaizers and pagans are still actively working to put people in religious bondage, unwilling to Believe God's Word.

It seems to me this has strains of Kristillnacht in it.

But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches. Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.
First Corinthians, Catholic chapter seven, Protestant verses seventeen to twenty,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

492 posted on 05/27/2015 6:32:30 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: metmom
"Boy, does that ever need to sink deep into our spirits."

Amen to that! and it will have to bash it's way through religion to get there....and it will if we do what Jesus said was "the work of God".

I love reading the RF! If you can look past the clanging there is much to chew on,especially lately! God is a wonderfull provider!

493 posted on 05/27/2015 6:37:31 AM PDT by mitch5501 ("make your calling and election sure:for if ye do these things ye shall never fall")
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To: smvoice; daniel1212; roamer_1; Zuriel; editor-surveyor
NOWHERE does Peter tell them that Christ died FOR THEIR SINS.

Acts 3:

17 “And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers did also. 18 But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

"Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, AND BY WICKED HANDS HAVE CRUCIFIED AND SLAIN:" Acts2:23. Does THIS sound like good news? Does this sound like he is preaching the cross as good news and their salvation?

Well yes it is the good news. It is the brutal truth. Messiah had to suffer and die for sinners. Peter speaks truth here. We are all wicked and only the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ releases us from the bonds of Satan. Peter was giving the very people who yelled "crucify him, crucify him" weeks earlier the gospel of Grace right between the eyes. And some "were cut to the heart."

If you don't believe me, let's look at what Jesus Christ said was the good news:

Luke 24:

44 Then He said to them,“These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures. 46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

Now, with the Words of Christ presented, let's move to 1 Corinthians 15 once again to see what Paul said was the Gospel:

1 Corinthians 15:

15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

Now Peter in Acts chapter 3:

Acts 3:

17 “Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

Jesus Christ, Peter and Paul preached the same Gospel. The death and resurrection and future return of Jesus Christ IS the Gospel of Grace. Without Christ's death and resurrection, there is no remission of sins. All three passages match.

494 posted on 05/27/2015 6:39:27 AM PDT by redleghunter (1 Peter 1:3-5)
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To: OK Sun
Dispensationalism: There were no Christians before Pentacost, not the apostles, not Mary, not even John the Baptist.

That's the first step to Dispensations.

495 posted on 05/27/2015 6:40:54 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (Of those born of women there is not risen one greater than John The Baptist.)
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To: CynicalBear; MHGinTN; xzins
It's the natural response of the first shock. He's not going to suddenly repudiate Rood here and now on this thread. It takes time to assimilate new information that completely undermines something or someone that you have put a lot of stock in. God willing, editor-surveyor won't just close his ears, but will set out to "disprove" the accusations against Rood by doing his own research--and in the process, will uncover the truth for himself.

But that will take time, and we need to give him that time in sympathetic love, not throw rocks at him. Torah, after all, forbids putting stumbling blocks in the path of one who does not see.

Shalom uv'rekha m'ach Yeshua HaMashiach
Peace and blessings from a brother in Jesus Christ

496 posted on 05/27/2015 6:53:17 AM PDT by Buggman (returnofbenjamin.com)
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To: smvoice
Oh, this is rich. PLEASE show me the exact verse in 1 Cor. Chapter 15 that you are talking about. Show me where Paul says that the gospel he preached is the same as the gospel that Peter preached.

1 Corinthians 15:

15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.,/B.

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

497 posted on 05/27/2015 6:55:17 AM PDT by redleghunter (1 Peter 1:3-5)
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To: daniel1212

Excellent laydown.


498 posted on 05/27/2015 6:57:56 AM PDT by redleghunter (1 Peter 1:3-5)
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To: winodog; daniel1212; roamer_1; Zuriel
Now you can’t put us Gentiles in this verse, unless you force it.

Key operative word in your discussion above.

Which Jesus answered:

Luke 24:

“Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

499 posted on 05/27/2015 7:02:15 AM PDT by redleghunter (1 Peter 1:3-5)
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To: Kandy Atz; smvoice; metmom; MHGinTN; winodog; daniel1212

The Body of Christ did not replace Israel. Every promise will be fulfilled in its proper time. The BOC was a Mystery, HIDDEN in God until revealed by Paul. Once this Truth is revealed to your spirit, you will understand why what was taught in the Gospels, and during the time of Acts, differs from the revelation Paul teaches in his later Prison letters.

If words have any meaning, Paul is clearly teaching something new. And for those of us who are not Jews, or Jews who are now Believers in the BOC, it is a wonderful revelation.

Ephesians 3:1-7 (AMP) - 1 FOR THIS reason [because I preached that you are thus built up together], I, Paul, [am] the prisoner of Jesus the Christ for the sake and on behalf of you Gentiles— 2 Assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace (His unmerited favor) that was entrusted to me [to dispense to you] for your benefit, 3 [And] that the mystery (secret) was made known to me and I was allowed to comprehend it by direct revelation, as I already briefly wrote you. 4 When you read this you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ. 5 [This mystery] was never disclosed to human beings in past generations as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles (consecrated messengers) and prophets by the [Holy] Spirit. 6 [It is this:] that the Gentiles are now to be fellow heirs [with the Jews], members of the same body and joint partakers [sharing] in the same divine promise in Christ through [their acceptance of] the glad tidings (the Gospel). 7 Of this [Gospel] I was made a minister according to the gift of God's free grace (undeserved favor) which was bestowed on me by the exercise (the working in all its effectiveness) of His power.

Was Paul lying when he said this revelation came directly from God and had never been revealed before? Does this in anyway sound like what Peter, James, and John, the apostles to the circumcision, taught in Acts?

I happened to be perusing the thread and at this point I see what seems to be an internal inconsistency in your argument between your words and the words of the proof texts you use in support.

You assert that what was revealed to Paul different than what Peter, James, and John preached, but in your own proof text it says:

5 [This mystery] was never disclosed to human beings in past generations as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles (consecrated messengers) and prophets by the [Holy] Spirit."

"Holy Apostles" and "prophets" are plural there, not singular, as if what was revealed to Paul was unique and somehow different than what was revealed to the the other Apostles.

No one denies that the Gospel was preached first to the Jews, and then the Gentiles, or that the Body of Christ is composed of both Jews and Gentiles. However, your hyper-distinction about something changing around the time of the Acts 28 announcement to the Jews in Rome, even to the point that believers in the Gospel during the time of Acts were in a very different position is, at best, unnecessary and imho, unwarranted by the evidence, to say the least.

That Paul emphasizes different aspects of the Gospel or Christ's fulfillment of OT prophecies in earlier letters than he does in later letters in not enough to sustain your claim that believers in the Gospel prior to Acts 38 were different positionally before God or were believing a different Gospel.

Romans 1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Gospel Exalted

Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, [a]called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning His Son, who was born of a [b]descendant of David according to the flesh, who was declared the Son of God with power [c]by the resurrection from the dead, according to the [d]Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship [e]to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake, among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as [f]saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[snip]

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed [j]from faith to faith; as it is written, “[k]But the righteous man shall live by faith.”

Cordially,

500 posted on 05/27/2015 7:07:27 AM PDT by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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