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Can Christians Lose Their Salvation?
Christian Post ^ | 05/14/2015 | Shane Idleman

Posted on 05/17/2015 5:59:53 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

A common question for many is, "Can I lose my salvation?" I've heard both sides of the argument, and only God truly knows a person's heart, but I can share a few thoughts. The reason there is a debate is because the Scriptures teach that salvation is a gift from God that cannot be earned, but they also offer warnings about falling away. There should be a healthy tension between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. This issue should not create a spirit of division, elitism, or theological superiority.

One school of thought suggests that salvation cannot be lost, as in losing your car keys, but that it can be left, as in walking away from it. This may be why Jesus spoke of the man who said in his heart "my master delays His coming; therefore, I will turn from living a godly life". When the master returned unexpectedly, the servant was banished because he chose to turn from what he knew to be right.

In another passage, Jesus said, "You have left your first love," when speaking to the church in Ephesus (Revelation 2:4). James 5:19-20 adds, if anyone wanders from the truth and someone turns him back, a soul is saved from death. If anything, these Scriptures, and many more, reinforce the fact that we have certain responsibilities.

We should never turn from what we know to be right. Jesus encouraged His followers to be watchful, prepared, and ready for His return. Are we watchful? Are we prepared? Are we ready? (Read Matthew 24:45-51; Luke 21:34.) The Scriptures offer a healthy tension between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility.

The other school of thought suggests that some of those passages are dealing with people who never fully surrendered to Christ. As a result, they fell away. They heard the gospel, but never fully embraced it and turned from their sins; they only had "intellectual" knowledge of salvation. According to this view, the real question isn't, "Can a person lose their salvation" but "Was the person really saved to begin with?"

Titus 1:16 and James 2:14 both conclude that many people "say" that they know God, but deny Him by their lifestyle. I John 2:19 suggests that those who acknowledge Christ initially, but deny Him later, are not saved to begin with: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us."

When it comes to salvation, we all agree that God gets all the glory and all the credit. Salvation is His work. We are never outside of His sovereignty and control: "It is God who makes us stand firm in Christ" (2 Corinthians 1:21). I am convinced, like Paul, "that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39). Nothing can separate us from God, but we should never ignore the strong warnings about turning from Him.

When we believe the gospel and repent of our sin we "are sealed with the promised Holy Spirit who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession" (Ephesians 1:13-14). These promises are not based on anything that we do; they are based on what Christ did. John 3:36 says, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life." Jesus adds, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand" (John 10:28). Again, "It is God (not us) who makes us stand firm in Christ." For this reason, I don't believe that we can lose it.

Our salvation is guaranteed based on the assurances found in Scripture, but we also must "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling" (cf. Philippians 2:12). My goal is to be faithful to the command to preach, witness, and proclaim while understanding that God does the drawing, saving, and sealing.

Again, I believe that there should be a healthy tension between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. This issue should not create a spirit of division, elitism, or theological superiority. At the heart of the division is Calvinism vs. Arminianism. Sadly, brother is shooting brother and sister is wounding sister. Have we forgotten how to show grace to those in the Body who we disagree with? Those who believe you can lose your salvation should not chide those who believe in eternal security - "once saved always saved" is by no means a license to sin - it's a belief in God's guarantee. But on the flip side, those who embrace eternal security should not mock those who disagree.

I can hear it now, "But what about Hebrews 6:4-6." It says, "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."

Based on my understanding of terms such as "enlightened," "tasted," and "shared," they are not necessarily words linked to salvation. Judas Iscariot was enlightened—he knew a great deal. He also tasted and shared in the ministry of Christ, but we all know his fate. When he fell away, repentance was elusive. His fate was sealed. However, this verse should force all Christians to take inventory.

We all sin and fall short, but the important question to ask is what is the condition of your heart—have you truly repented and believed in Christ as your Lord and Savior, or are you trusting in false assurance? This may be why Paul said in 2 Corinthians 13:5, "Examine yourself as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?"

Our actions reveal a great deal about our relationship with Christ. A.W. Tozer said: "When people find that after being in the church for years they are not making much progress, they ought to examine themselves and wonder whether they have been truly converted."

Has your heart become so hard as to reject Jesus Christ? If so, you can change that today. I'm aware that I'm driving this point home, but I'd rather err on the side of speaking too much about a committed relationship with Jesus than too little. It's never too late to get back on track: "Return to me, and I will return to you," says the Lord (Micah 3:7). God is sovereign but man has a responsibility to repent and return.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Shane Idleman is the founder and lead pastor of Westside Christian Fellowship in Lancaster, California, just North of Los Angeles. He just released his 7th book, Desperate for More of God. Shane's sermons, articles, books, and radio program can all be found at www.wcfav.org.


TOPICS: Moral Issues; Theology
KEYWORDS: assurance; salvation
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To: metmom

A very sad story for sure. How many of us think that in 5 minutes, we could take our last breath? Today is the day of salvation.


101 posted on 05/18/2015 2:23:54 AM PDT by Mark17 (The love of God, how rich and pure, how measureless and strong. It shall forever more endure.)
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To: metmom

**Jesus breathed on the disciples before He left and gave them the Holy Spirit.**

I believe that to be the Lord prophesying to them. There were no words immediately following to confirm that they received it right then and there. They were told right before his ascension to tarry for ‘the promise of the Father’, that they would receive not many days hence.

Gotta roll. Have a good day.


102 posted on 05/18/2015 3:26:34 AM PDT by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: af_vet_1981
No....Roman Cult misinterpretation, refuted repeatedly yet parroted incessantly.

Hoss

103 posted on 05/18/2015 3:40:30 AM PDT by HossB86 (Christ, and Him alone.)
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To: SeekAndFind; All
From the article:

The reason there is a debate is because the Scriptures teach that salvation is a gift from God that cannot be earned, but they also offer warnings about falling away. There should be a healthy tension between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. This issue should not create a spirit of division, elitism, or theological superiority.

The real reason there is debate is because the entire scripture is not consulted, but only one verse or another as if the whole comes into conflict with itself. The same scripture which gives warnings against falling away also declare that God keeps men from falling away! The same Bible that teaches that men ought to turn to God, also teach that God turns men towards Him, and that, infallibly! I will first prove that faith and obedience are the works of God, and then I will prove that the scripture teaches that the Elect cannot (Finally) fall away. Lastly, I'll demonstrate how those verses from Hebrews or Romans 11 ought best to be understood. I will have Augustine initiate this argument for me along with evidence:

"When we commit sin, we get no help from God; but we are not able to act justly, and to fulfil the law of righteousness in every part, unless we are helped by God. Light does not help our physical eyes to shut out light; rather, light helps our eyes to see, and the eye cannot see at all unless light helps it. Likewise God, Who is the light of the inner self, helps our mental sight, in order that we may do some good, not according to our own righteousness, but according to His. But if we turn away from God , it is our own act; then we are wise according to the flesh, then we consent to the lust of the flesh for unlawful deeds . When we turn to God, therefore, He helps us; when we turn away from Him, He forsakes us. But God even helps us to turn to Him; and this, certainly, is something that light does not do for the eyes of the body. When, therefore, He commands us in the words, ‘Turn to Me, and I will turn to you’ (Zech. 1: 3), and we say to Him, ‘Turn us , O God of our salvation’ (Ps. 85: 4), and again, ‘Turn us, O God of hosts’ (Ps. 80: 3) — what else do we say but, ‘Give what You command’? When He commands us, saying, ‘Understand now, O simple among the people’ (Ps. 94: 8), and we say to Him, ‘Give me understanding, that I may learn Thy commandments’ (Ps. 119: 73) — what else do we say but, ‘Give what You command’? When He commands us, saying, ‘Do not go after your lusts’ (Ecclesiasticus 18: 30), and we say to Him, ‘We know that no-one can be chaste, unless God gives it to him’ (Wisdom 8: 21) — what else do we say but, ‘Give what You command’? When He commands us, saying, ‘Do justice’ (Isa. 56: 1 ), and we say, ‘Teach me Your judgments, O Lord’ (Ps. 119: 108) — what else do we say but, ‘Give what You command’? Likewise, when He says: ‘Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness; for they shall be filled’ ( Matt. 5: 6), from whom should we seek the meat and drink of righteousness, but from Him Who promises His fullness to those who hunger and thirst after it?(Augustine, On the Merits and Forgiveness of Sins, 2:5)

Note here the important distinction: when we sin, we have no help in this. It is entirely our fault, for God "made man upright," and then we "sought out many inventions" (Ecc 7:29). We sin because we are dead with Adam, made entirely depraved and condemned even from birth due to the sin of our original father. We are born "dead in sin," "children of wrath" by "nature," and incapable of "understanding" or "seeking" after God (somewhat paraphrasing 1 Col 15:22, Eph 2:1-5, Rom 3:11). So when God condemns us, He condemns us by leaving us to our own free will, that being "free" only to sin due to our depraved hearts, and which through further sins receives upon itself greater and greater temporal judgments and a hardening of sin, climaxing with hell in the hereafter.

So when we see these commands, we should not assume that it means that we have the freedom to believe, or to be good, or to walk after God's law, by any of our own power, because we are evil, being ruined and righteously subject to sin and death. The scripture is clear that salvation is entirely the work of God, from beginning to end:

1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

If the ability to believe was in man, then man ought to be able to believe without the power of the Holy Spirit. Yet no one can confess Christ but by the Holy Ghost. Therefore, the best you can argue upon reading this verse is that "we only receive free will at the moment the Holy Spirit works within us", though this claim is refuted later on too.

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

If faith rested in part in man, in his ability to weigh good and evil and to believe one or the other, it could not be said that it was not of "flesh and blood," but of the Father, since clearly if we are but flesh and blood before our quickening, then faith is not a function of our reasoning or our moral uprightness, but of supernatural revelation. Hence why even babies, such as John the Baptist, may believe even in the womb, and why the wisest of men cannot.

Two proofs in one swoop:

Rom_9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

“For it is God which works in you, both to will and to do of His own good pleasure;” (Php 2:13)

For these I will let Augustine demonstrate their strength for me:

“And further, should any one be inclined to boast, not indeed of his works, but of the freedom of his will, as if the first merit belonged to him, this very liberty of good action being given to him as a reward he had earned, let him listen to this same preacher of grace, when he says: “For it is God which works in you, both to will and to do of His own good pleasure;” (Php 2:13) and in another place: “So, then, it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy.” (Rom 9:16) Now as, undoubtedly, if a man is of the age to use his reason, he cannot believe, hope, love, unless he will to do so, nor obtain the prize of the high calling of God unless he voluntarily run for it; in what sense is it not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy, except that, as it is written, “the preparation of the heart is from the Lord?” Otherwise, if it is said, “It is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy, because it is of both,” that is, both of the will of man and of the mercy of God, so that we are to understand the saying, “It is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy,” as if it meant the will of man alone is not sufficient, if the mercy of God go not with it—then it will follow that the mercy of God alone is not sufficient, if the will of man go not with it; and therefore, if we may rightly say, it is not of man that wills, but of God that shows mercy, because the will of man by itself is not enough, why may we not also rightly put it in the converse way: “It is not of God that shows mercy, but of man that wills,” because the mercy of God by itself does not suffice? Surely, if no Christian will dare to say this, “It is not of God that shows mercy, but of man that wills,” lest he should openly contradict the apostle, it follows that the true interpretation of the saying, “It is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy,” is that the whole work belongs to God, who both makes the will of man righteous, and thus prepares it for assistance, and assists it when it is prepared.” (Augustine, The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love, Ch. 32)

Another:

"But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." (Joh 6:64-65)

Someone in this thread disputed the power of the other verses in this chapter to prove that "all that the Father giveth to me" do, in fact, come to Christ, and are never lost, suggesting that some may be given to the Father and come to Christ, and yet not remain therein. In this proof, note how Christ is essentially explaining a cause and effect relationship between His assertion that no one can believe unless it is granted him, and the fact that He knew they were unbelievers. Christ does not say, "I knew you would not believe, and that is why I told you that you, having received the grace to believe, rejected it," but "That is why I told you, no one can come to me" unless it is given him. Clearly they were physically in front of Him, having come to Him carnally, and some of them were even his former disciples and thus may be said to have once had a belief in Him (though this belief was notional, carnal, not spiritual). However, if the premise is that these men had power to believe, or were given a help from God to believe that they merely turned away from, it does not follow that Christ's response would essentially be that it was not given to them to believe! This verse proves, therefore, that faith is entirely the gift of God, which is either given or not given.

Another proof:

"And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land; The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles: Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day." (Deu 29:2-4)

If warnings, commands, miracles, and even judgments prove that men have freedom to do moral good without the giving of the Father, it does not follow that the cause of their unbelief is placed upon the fact that God has not given them a heart to perceive, eyes to see, etc.

Another:

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." (Rom 9:6-15)

I will let Augustine handle this one for me again, but before I bring him in, I will note that these verses are in reference to the children of the promise and the children of the flesh. These are paralleled, first, with the example of Jacob and Esau, standing in for each one respectively, and finally with the vessels of honor and the vessels of wrath in later verses, the latter of which plainly denotes Christians and men like the Pharaoh respectively. Thus it is not true what some claim that these verses only have something to do with the people of Israel carnally and literally the Edomites, since the parallel is explicitly between the children of the promise and the children of the flesh, or, in other words, between those of us in the Spirit, the Elect, and the damned who are carnal and unspiritual. Now Augustine who gives the correct reading of this verse and disproves foreknowledge of works:

“And, moreover, who will be so foolish and blasphemous as to say that God cannot change the evil wills of men, whichever, whenever, and wheresoever He chooses, and direct them to what is good? But when He does this He does it of mercy; when He does it not, it is of justice that He does it not for “He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens.” And when the apostle said this, he was illustrating the grace of God, in connection with which he had just spoken of the twins in the womb of Rebecca, who “being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calls, it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.” And in reference to this matter he quotes another prophetic testimony: “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” But perceiving how what he had said might affect those who could not penetrate by their understanding the depth of this grace: “What shall we say then?” he says: “Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.” For it seems unjust that, in the absence of any merit or demerit, from good or evil works, God should love the one and hate the other. Now, if the apostle had wished us to understand that there were future good works of the one, and evil works of the other, which of course God foreknew, he would never have said, not of works, but, of future works, and in that way would have solved the difficulty, or rather there would then have been no difficulty to solve. As it is, however, after answering, God forbid; that is, God forbid that there should be unrighteousness with God; he goes on to prove that there is no unrighteousness in God’s doing this, and says: “For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” “ (Augustine, The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love, Chapter 98. Predestination to Eternal Life is Wholly of God’s Free Grace.)

To highlight Augustine's point, note how Paul here actually responds to the charge of unfairness that such claims naturally draw. If salvation is a matter of willing, or of running (works), then it is absolutely fair, because everyone can either choose to believe or disbelieve. But instead of saying that God foresaw good works, future perseverance or at least faith, He justifies God in doing so rather than correcting the "error" that Paul's hypothetical opponent allegedly reveals. Grace is not something given fairly, but is unfair, given freely without any willing or working on our part, otherwise it wouldn't be grace at all.

I can keep going, but I think this is good enough to show that salvation is the work of God. But to explicitly highlight verses which show that salvation cannot be lost in the Elect, I'll use these:

1Jn_2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Without any ambiguity, those who leave the church are said to have not been "of us." They "came out of us," they were visibly a member of the Church, but spiritually they were enemies of God. Otherwise "they would no doubt have continued with us."

Mar_13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Christ adds "if it were possible," plainly meaning it is not possible. These verses are to emphasize just how strong and convincing the false miracles will be, so much so that they would deceive "the elect" if not upheld by God's grace.

Php_1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

If the beginning of salvation is the gift of God, it follows that the ending is as well, since if God "begun" it, He will finish it also. Also remember the verse that says that it is not of man that "wills" or "runs," but of God who has mercy. The message is essentially the same, that the entire work of salvation belongs to God.

1Co_4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

If there is no difference between believers but grace (because of all things are given to us by God, then it is of grace that we differ, and not of ourselves), it does not follow that we can claim the power of final perseverance to ourselves or any part of our salvation. Because if any part of ourselves plays a deciding factor in our salvation, such that someone else who has received the same help as you fails to persevere, then the door is opened to boasting, and it is not true that we have nothing but what we have received from heaven. This verse draws a strict line in the sand that reveals which side of the Gospel you are on: If you cannot answer that the only reason why you are saved is Grace, then you do not believe the Gospel.

Joh_15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

In this verse, Christ establishes, first, that the beginning of salvation is entirely of the Lord's choosing, and also that the good works that we do "remain" because they also are produced by Him and preserved by Him.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

This one is self-explanatory, and also I'm getting sleepy.

Now as for Hebrews and also the verses from Romans 11 that someone referenced.

Recall also that the scripture teaches that many are called, but "few are chosen." The seeds are given to many (though not all, for there are millions of people who not only never heard the Gospel, but were even forbidden at times to hear the Gospel, thus dooming many), but they are only effectual in the Elect. Some receive the seed but it never springs up at all (Matt 13:4). In others, the seed sprouts, but either because of hardship, or because it was not deep enough, it withers or is devoured up by the world (5-7). It is only on the "good ground" that the seed is able to finish its growth and produce fruit, some a certain amount, others more, others less (for the grace we receive is not all given equally, but some receive it either more or less, some given the power to do this or that, or to remain chaste, and others not). (8).

Now if anyone claims that the Gospel grew in them because they are "good soil" in and of themselves, and are not good soil because God made them so, they are refuted by the previous scriptures I have posted and stand condemned.

So in the case of the scripture from Hebrews, there are many who may be illuminated by the Holy Spirit, receive blessings and taste even of the gifts of holiness, including the power to heal and other miracles (as Judas and Balaam were both given, the latter being a Pagan who prophecized by the power of the Holy Ghost), and yet they were not truly "of us," since they were never truly regenerated, given a new heart, or belonged to the Elect of God.

Note also that there are many who will claim a professing of Christ, and even point to miracles and good works, and yet Christ does not tell them that He "once knew them," but that He never knew them at all:

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Mat 7:22-23)

As for the verse from Romans 11, wherein it is said that they may be "cut off" for boasting. Bear in mind that the beginning of the chapter speaks of all the Jews, both carnal and spiritual, as being all branches alike. The Elect are explicitly spoken of as being preserved by God (Rom 11:4-6), while the rest are cut off.

Paul is speaking within the context of the visible and invisible Church. All may be members of the Church visibly, being either circumcised (for the Jews) or baptized, making a formal membership of it, being bound by its laws (for the Jews, the Law of Moses, for the Christian, the law of Christ), and even having their children counted as members of the covenant (visibly); however, this does not reflect their spiritual condition, which may be entirely depraved.

The warning is good and strong, and by warnings God also accomplishes His will in the elect:

Jer_32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Because God works through Apostles, and preaching, and commands, and warnings, and blessings, and even supernatural methods, to teach His people and to bring them to an ever greater understanding of the things of God. But in the Elect these pleadings, threats, offers, etc., are effectual, but in the reprobate they work only temporarily, or not at all:

Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

1Co_3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Gal_3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

104 posted on 05/18/2015 4:00:13 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Kandy Atz
Those of us who are made alive in Christ, blessed with every spiritual Blessing, and seated in the Heavenly places in Christ Jesus, are in a very different position than those that are described by the “grafted tree” analogy.

So you do not consider yourself and other Gentiles of your faith community to be grafted into the good olive tree ?

105 posted on 05/18/2015 4:08:13 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: Kandy Atz
Note the transition AWAY from religious division reaching its pinnacle upon the Revelation of the Body of Christ in the Prison letters.

It seems to me that your words indicate the view that the Pauline epistles were transformative and ushered in a new religion that was markedly different than that taught by the other Jewish apostles who lived with the Messiah, and that it kept evolving with each Pauline letter.

106 posted on 05/18/2015 4:13:37 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: Zuriel

That’s an option, too.


107 posted on 05/18/2015 4:14:55 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Skooz

OSAS is true.

Nor after OSAS can you throw it away, since there was nothing you did to earn your salvation, there is nothing you can do to lose your salvation.

People do confuse how common and efficacious grace works.

Compare Matt 16:17(Election), Jn 16:8-11 / 1Cor 2:11(Common Grace) with Heb 6:4-6(The call of the Father); Rom 8:13-18 (Holy Spirit communicating to our human spirit).

Common grace is a work of God the Holy Spirit with every unbeliever prior to hearing or believing the Gospel.

Once understood and accepted, Efficacious grace provides salvation and the OSAS principle is established.

There may be those who receive common grace, but not yet efficacious grace, who fall away, remaining unbelievers. They will still receive common grace until they die.


108 posted on 05/18/2015 4:20:22 AM PDT by Cvengr ( Adversity in life & death is inevitable; Stress is optional through faith in Christ.)
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To: Kandy Atz
I challenge you to square what is taught throughout the time of Acts, with God’s Revelation which was revealed through Paul primarily in his Prison letters. It can’t be done without twisting yourself into a religious pretzel. Stumble down into the religious ditch if you must, but there is freedom from religion waiting ...

This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Second Peter, Catholic chapter three, in its entirety, as authorized, but not authored, by King James

109 posted on 05/18/2015 4:24:09 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: ColdSteelTalon
I will simply have faith in Christ. And no one can snatch me from his fingers.

Well said. Our faith is in Christ alone, no longer in ourselves. While He lives, we live. Believing in and loving God deeply and, at the same time, our loving one another will always be evident to the end of our lives. Also equally important is accepting His love and the love of "one another", to help us daily walk humbly before God.

Lovers of God will always remember the risen Jesus Christ Who sent ANOTHER Comforter to those of us who believe in and refuse to turn back from following Jesus of Nazareth, for any reason, real or imagined. It's who we are. It's what we do.
110 posted on 05/18/2015 4:29:06 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: af_vet_1981; Kandy Atz

Not a new religion......

A right relationship and yes, it IS markedly different than anything that preceded it.


111 posted on 05/18/2015 4:29:16 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Zuriel
I don’t believe that Demas was never born again, for Paul was so gifted that I’m sure that he would have discerned if he had been faking his rebirth.

A lot of Christians have been taught that BACKSLIDING is PROOF that the person was never born again to begin with.

This is a result of thinking (Being taught) that one can NOT loss their salvation by ANY means.

112 posted on 05/18/2015 4:34:45 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ealgeone; BillyBoy; RnMomof7
"Confirmation" is the anglicized word for chrismation -- to receive an anointing and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It's clearly mentioned repeatedly in the New Testament.


HMMMmmm...


Acts 19:2
He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."

113 posted on 05/18/2015 4:36:49 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ealgeone; BillyBoy; RnMomof7
... we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."

SOME body was a poor teacher to these believers!

114 posted on 05/18/2015 4:37:29 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
You can tell whether they’re saved by their fruit.

Oh?

They speak in tongues?

115 posted on 05/18/2015 4:38:12 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Kandy Atz

You post #59 is a strong post and is useful to me and all the Church of the risen Lord Jesus Christ.


116 posted on 05/18/2015 4:38:14 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: Zuriel
My brother, a long time cop, has come upon many a traffic accident, where in some cases, the victim barely knew what hit him/her.

I was in an accident, didn't die (I think) and didn't know what hit me!

117 posted on 05/18/2015 4:39:46 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Salvation

Say!

I shudda read ahead!


118 posted on 05/18/2015 4:40:13 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Mark17
Their "deathbed" might be the car they are driving down the highway at 80 MPH.

Or just sitting in their living room, watching TV, when some OTHER fool is flying down the road at 80!!


119 posted on 05/18/2015 4:44:59 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Mark17
...when some OTHER fool is flying down the road at 80!!

Though for me; I doubt any vehicle could make it from the road in front of my home TO the house!

Way too many trees in the way.

However; I shan't discount a runaway TRACTOR getting me!

120 posted on 05/18/2015 4:46:50 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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