Posted on 05/17/2015 5:59:53 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
A common question for many is, "Can I lose my salvation?" I've heard both sides of the argument, and only God truly knows a person's heart, but I can share a few thoughts. The reason there is a debate is because the Scriptures teach that salvation is a gift from God that cannot be earned, but they also offer warnings about falling away. There should be a healthy tension between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. This issue should not create a spirit of division, elitism, or theological superiority.
One school of thought suggests that salvation cannot be lost, as in losing your car keys, but that it can be left, as in walking away from it. This may be why Jesus spoke of the man who said in his heart "my master delays His coming; therefore, I will turn from living a godly life". When the master returned unexpectedly, the servant was banished because he chose to turn from what he knew to be right.
In another passage, Jesus said, "You have left your first love," when speaking to the church in Ephesus (Revelation 2:4). James 5:19-20 adds, if anyone wanders from the truth and someone turns him back, a soul is saved from death. If anything, these Scriptures, and many more, reinforce the fact that we have certain responsibilities.
We should never turn from what we know to be right. Jesus encouraged His followers to be watchful, prepared, and ready for His return. Are we watchful? Are we prepared? Are we ready? (Read Matthew 24:45-51; Luke 21:34.) The Scriptures offer a healthy tension between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility.
The other school of thought suggests that some of those passages are dealing with people who never fully surrendered to Christ. As a result, they fell away. They heard the gospel, but never fully embraced it and turned from their sins; they only had "intellectual" knowledge of salvation. According to this view, the real question isn't, "Can a person lose their salvation" but "Was the person really saved to begin with?"
Titus 1:16 and James 2:14 both conclude that many people "say" that they know God, but deny Him by their lifestyle. I John 2:19 suggests that those who acknowledge Christ initially, but deny Him later, are not saved to begin with: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us."
When it comes to salvation, we all agree that God gets all the glory and all the credit. Salvation is His work. We are never outside of His sovereignty and control: "It is God who makes us stand firm in Christ" (2 Corinthians 1:21). I am convinced, like Paul, "that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39). Nothing can separate us from God, but we should never ignore the strong warnings about turning from Him.
When we believe the gospel and repent of our sin we "are sealed with the promised Holy Spirit who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession" (Ephesians 1:13-14). These promises are not based on anything that we do; they are based on what Christ did. John 3:36 says, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life." Jesus adds, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand" (John 10:28). Again, "It is God (not us) who makes us stand firm in Christ." For this reason, I don't believe that we can lose it.
Our salvation is guaranteed based on the assurances found in Scripture, but we also must "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling" (cf. Philippians 2:12). My goal is to be faithful to the command to preach, witness, and proclaim while understanding that God does the drawing, saving, and sealing.
Again, I believe that there should be a healthy tension between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. This issue should not create a spirit of division, elitism, or theological superiority. At the heart of the division is Calvinism vs. Arminianism. Sadly, brother is shooting brother and sister is wounding sister. Have we forgotten how to show grace to those in the Body who we disagree with? Those who believe you can lose your salvation should not chide those who believe in eternal security - "once saved always saved" is by no means a license to sin - it's a belief in God's guarantee. But on the flip side, those who embrace eternal security should not mock those who disagree.
I can hear it now, "But what about Hebrews 6:4-6." It says, "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."
Based on my understanding of terms such as "enlightened," "tasted," and "shared," they are not necessarily words linked to salvation. Judas Iscariot was enlightened—he knew a great deal. He also tasted and shared in the ministry of Christ, but we all know his fate. When he fell away, repentance was elusive. His fate was sealed. However, this verse should force all Christians to take inventory.
We all sin and fall short, but the important question to ask is what is the condition of your heart—have you truly repented and believed in Christ as your Lord and Savior, or are you trusting in false assurance? This may be why Paul said in 2 Corinthians 13:5, "Examine yourself as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?"
Our actions reveal a great deal about our relationship with Christ. A.W. Tozer said: "When people find that after being in the church for years they are not making much progress, they ought to examine themselves and wonder whether they have been truly converted."
Has your heart become so hard as to reject Jesus Christ? If so, you can change that today. I'm aware that I'm driving this point home, but I'd rather err on the side of speaking too much about a committed relationship with Jesus than too little. It's never too late to get back on track: "Return to me, and I will return to you," says the Lord (Micah 3:7). God is sovereign but man has a responsibility to repent and return.
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Shane Idleman is the founder and lead pastor of Westside Christian Fellowship in Lancaster, California, just North of Los Angeles. He just released his 7th book, Desperate for More of God. Shane's sermons, articles, books, and radio program can all be found at www.wcfav.org.
Exactly, that is why it is a terrible idea to wait till they are on their deathbed to get saved. Their "deathbed" might be the car they are driving down the highway at 80 MPH. Not good.
I agree. The point was God’s mercy. He wants everyone saved. When this subject comes up, its good to keep His Love in mind. He is not sitting in Heaven with a giant fly swatter waiting to slap the Holy heck out of someone who slips up.
Most works-based religions want you to always be in doubt as to your standing in Christ. That’s how they keep you trapped, and prevent you from maturing in Christ. Its also how they discourage unbelievers from approaching God, making Him seem too hard, too distant, and impossible to please.
I have known some really tough cases where people have resisted God for years. But through the faith and prayers of their family and friends, the Holy Spirit would reach them at the end, and they would finally believe. Its not the ideal, but so much better than eternity without God. On a personal note, long after my Mother died, I was still witnessing answers to her prayers along these same lines. God is so very GOOD.
I challenge you to square what is taught throughout the time of Acts, with God’s Revelation which was revealed through Paul primarily in his Prison letters. It can’t be done without twisting yourself into a religious pretzel.
Stumble down into the religious ditch if you must, but there is freedom from religion waiting for those of us who are part of the Body of Christ, where there is neither Jew or Gentile, male or female etc. Those of us who are made alive in Christ, blessed with every spiritual Blessing, and seated in the Heavenly places in Christ Jesus, are in a very different position than those that are described by the “grafted tree” analogy. Believers are not servants, or even friends, we are part of the family. All religious division is gone in Christ - although the religious among us, and the enemy, still cause plenty of problems.
Let’s consider the verse you posted above:
Romans 11:23-24 (AMP)
23 And even those others [the fallen branches, Jews], if they do not persist in [clinging to] their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
24 For if you have been cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and against nature grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much easier will it be to graft these natural [branches] back on [the original parent stock of] their own olive tree.
Does that teaching sound anything like what is below?
Ephesians 2:5-6 (AMP)
5 Even when we were dead (slain) by [our own] shortcomings and trespasses, He made us alive together in fellowship and in union with Christ; [He gave us the very life of Christ Himself, the same new life with which He quickened Him, for] it is by grace (His favor and mercy which you did not deserve) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation).
6 And He raised us up together with Him and made us sit down together [giving us joint seating with Him] in the heavenly sphere [by virtue of our being] in Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
Ephesians 2:10-16 (AMP)
10 For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].
11 Therefore, remember that at one time you were Gentiles (heathens) in the flesh, called Uncircumcision by those who called themselves Circumcision, [itself a mere mark] in the flesh made by human hands.
12 [Remember] that you were at that time separated (living apart) from Christ [excluded from all part in Him], utterly estranged and outlawed from the rights of Israel as a nation, and strangers with no share in the sacred compacts of the [Messianic] promise [with no knowledge of or right in God’s agreements, His covenants]. And you had no hope (no promise); you were in the world without God.
13 But now in Christ Jesus, you who once were [so] far away, through (by, in) the blood of Christ have been brought near.
14 For He is [Himself] our peace (our bond of unity and harmony). He has made us both [Jew and Gentile] one [body], and has broken down (destroyed, abolished) the hostile dividing wall between us,
15 By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.
16 And [He designed] to reconcile to God both [Jew and Gentile, united] in a single body by means of His cross, thereby killing the mutual enmity and bringing the feud to an end.
Colossians 2:8-11 (AMP)
8 See to it that no one carries you off as spoil or makes you yourselves captive by his so-called philosophy and intellectualism and vain deceit (idle fancies and plain nonsense), following human tradition (men’s ideas of the material rather than the spiritual world), just crude notions following the rudimentary and elemental teachings of the universe and disregarding [the teachings of] Christ (the Messiah).
9 For in Him the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature].
10 And you are in Him, made full and having come to fullness of life [in Christ you too are filled with the Godhead—Father, Son and Holy Spirit—and reach full spiritual stature]. And He is the Head of all rule and authority [of every angelic principality and power].
11 In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, but in a [spiritual] circumcision [performed by] Christ by stripping off the body of the flesh (the whole corrupt, carnal nature with its passions and lusts).
That has been in God’s Word for 2,000 years, and yet the religious folks keep confusing what is meant for the Body, with what was taught during the transition time of Acts.
You should consider reading that passage carefully, allow the Holy Spirit to reveal its Truth. NOTE - Paul is addressing GENTILES. Hmmmmmmm....
Note the transition AWAY from religious division reaching its pinnacle upon the Revelation of the Body of Christ in the Prison letters.
Galatians 3:28-29 (AMP) - 28 There is [now no distinction] neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ [are in Him Who is Abraham's Seed], then you are Abraham's offspring and [spiritual] heirs according to promise.
There is still the reference to Judaism, but the divisions are fading. Now look at what Paul writes in Colossians.
Colossians 3:11-12 (AMP) - 11 [In this new creation all distinctions vanish.] There is no room for and there can be neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, [nor difference between nations whether alien] barbarians or Scythians [who are the most savage of all], nor slave or free man; but Christ is all and in all [everything and everywhere, to all men, without distinction of person]. 12 Clothe yourselves therefore, as God's own chosen ones (His own picked representatives), [who are] purified and holy and well-beloved [by God Himself, by putting on behavior marked by] tenderhearted pity and mercy, kind feeling, a lowly opinion of yourselves, gentle ways, [and] patience [which is tireless and long-suffering, and has the power to endure whatever comes, with good temper].
The divisions have vanished completely and now there is spiritual unity in the Body of Christ. And as he tells us in Ephesians, all spiritual Blessings belong to us.
Ephesians 1:3-5 (AMP) - 3 May blessing (praise, laudation, and eulogy) be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual (given by the Holy Spirit) blessing in the heavenly realm! 4 Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him in love. 5 For He foreordained us (destined us, planned in love for us) to be adopted (revealed) as His own children through Jesus Christ, in accordance with the purpose of His will [because it pleased Him and was His kind intent]—
“Most works-based religions want you to always be in doubt as to your standing in Christ. That’s how they keep you trapped, and prevent you from maturing in Christ. Its also how they discourage unbelievers from approaching God, making Him seem too hard, too distant, and impossible to please.”
Many on this forum are either practicing the above (sincerely, I believe) or suffering under it. May the LORD kindly deliver them!
Because as you said, He is so very GOOD!
News to me and every other Catholic in the world. I'm a lifelong Catholic and certified Catholic catechist so I understand what my religious teaches about Confirmation.
What happened in the New Testament certainly reminds me of my confirmation (I had already been baptized in the name of Jesus, then later on, someone laid hands on me so I could receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and have the wisdom to spread Christ's word)
So were exactly do you find it differs from the Catholic concept of confirmation? An explanation instead of just a "I disagree" would be helpful.
Acts 8:14-17 and Acts 19:1-7 clearly disagree with you. Both passages state that the followers had ALREADY been sealed to Christ by a water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus, and then they completed their initiation by a separate, SECOND sealing where they were anointed by the laying of hands and received the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
I will take the Bible's word over your word.
I agree Eagle. A one time sealing is good enough for me.
Then why do they fear going to hell?
Why do they consider it a sin of presumption to be confident of their salvation?
Do you really believe that someone who is saved can go to hell?
How many Catholics speak in tongues when confirmed?
Thank you.
Good analysis.
Catholicism......
You need to be baptized because you’re saved with baptism. Except if you’re not.
You need to be confirmed because you’re saved with confirmation. Except if you’re not.
You need to eat Jesus because you’re saved with easting Jesus. Except if you’re not.
You need to do works because you’re saved by doing works. Except if you’re not.
There’s many different things they say you have to do to get saved and stay saved, except for the least little reason, God will zap you and send you to hell.
So they teach a saved child of God can go to hell.
So what exactly are they using the term *saved* for?
What the heck do they think we are being saved FROM if people do all that and still end up in hell?????
Cause they certainly aren’t being saved from hell.
And we are presently seated with Christ in the heavenly places.
And we know that He is there, seated at God’s right hand making intercession for us.
How much better than that does it get. In the spiritual realm we are next to Jesus, while He is interceding to God for us on our behalf.
And we are told that we are to come boldly to the throne of grace, which we can do because we are already there with Him.
AND since Jesus is already interceding for us, and we are seated with Him, we can appeal to Him for a direct line to God.
What a thought! That’s a great way to bring our prayer life into order. Realize that we are in God’s presence and if Jesus was standing with me before God (which He is even though we’re not consciously aware of it), what would I ask God for?
Conundrum?
Me, too.
And in my moments of surrender, I have told Him that He has my permission (as if He needed it) to keep me there, no matter what I say should I ever be caught in a moment of weakness and sin, and drag me, kicking and screaming the whole way, if necessary.
Anything but allow me to reach the point of turning my back on Him.
I know how weak I am and am GRATEFUL that He will NEVER abandon me and (I firmly believe) not let me abandon Him.
Thank God that He seals us until the day of redemption and I can rest secure in His love and care.
The ten virgins are not the church.
The ten virgins are at the wedding feast of the bride and bridegroom.
We, the church, are the bride.
As far as the seeds, I'm thinking that you're referring to the four types of soil, Jesus explains that one so we don't need to.
Jesus breathed on the disciples before He left and gave them the Holy Spirit.
They were then later endued with power from on high.
They already had the Holy Spirit.
I think there’s a lot of confusion about the terms *filled with the Holy Spirit* and *baptized with the Holy Spirit* and that some people talk past each other because they aren’t clear on the terms.
Each person receives the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation, although there is a second deeper experience that can happen later on, just as at Pentecost. Call it what you will.....
Happened recently here in CNY.
A drunk driver was heading northbound in the southbound lane on I-81.
I passed the first car, which was obliterated. It was the worst accident that I had ever seen. There was almost nothing left of the car, and I saw a white blanket across the driver’s compartment, four hours yet, after the accident. Clearly they hadn’t been able to get what was left of the body out of the car yet.
Vehicle was a good 200 yards down the road, in not much better shape.
She was drunk and she lived. The guy she hit died.
It was a very sobering way to start the day.....
http://www.twcnews.com/nys/binghamton/news/2015/05/8/fatal-crash-81-south-lafayette.html
And this one shows the GOOD side of the car. I came from the other direction and saw the driver’s side.
Some people want to control others and if everyone knew about their freedom in Christ, those who want to control would have no leverage.
So they create a works based religious system and what better leverage than eternity in hell for not following them?
NOT a conundrum.
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