Prayers For, To,and Through the Dead

Reformed Apologetics Thoughts of Francis Turretin Blog ^ | April 21, 2009 | Francis Turretin Fan

[RnMomof7]

Within Roman Catholicism (and within some other churches as well) there are prayers that are made for, through, and to the dead. We, as Reformed believers, reject all three of these categories but on different grounds. In discussing these issues with Roman Catholics it may be useful to be able to understand the different categories and to explain why it is that we reject each. We should pray for the living, to the living and true God, through the merits and intercession of Christ alone.

1. Prayers For the Dead

In Roman Catholicism, there is a belief in Purgatory. Although Roman Catholics give varying explanations, a popular perception is that purgatory is a place where, through a period of suffering, the soul is purged of sin (it's worth noting that some Roman Catholics today deny that Purgatory is either an actual place or that it has actual time, but we'll leave that for another discussion).

Those within Purgatory want to be purged of their sins (in Roman Catholic theology) but they also want to get out of there and on to heaven. So people are encouraged to pray for the souls of the deceased, for relief/escape from Purgatory. After all, apparently, this suffering can be alleviated through the granting of an indulgence to the person in purgatory.

The Bible, however, teaches that the souls of believers are, at their death made perfect in holiness and do immediately pass into glory. (See Thomas Watson's discussion, for a more detailed discussion.) Given this, prayers for dead believers are useless, since believers are already in heaven.

Furthermore, while certain folks have (from time to time) suggested that salvation is still possible in hell, it is not. Of course, this itself is not normally disputed by Roman Catholics, who recognize that there is no escape from hell itself. Thus, prayers for dead unbelievers are also useless, since unbelievers are already in hell, from which they cannot escape.

Thus, there is no third category - no third option that exists, where prayers for the deceased would have any value. Accordingly, we reject prayers for the dead as vain and superstitious, and we do not engage in such prayers.

2. Prayers To the Dead

In Roman Catholicism there are, from time to time, prayers to the dead. I would be quick to point out Mary, but this doctrine they have of the Assumption of Mary leaves it unclear whether they really consider Mary to be dead or resurrected (although, of course, as a matter of objective fact, she is dead and awaits the resurrection of the faithful). Aside from Mary, however, other saints are sometimes prayed to within Catholicism. One particularly popular saint in English-speaking countries is St. Jude (aka Judas not Iscariot, one of the twelve apostles), the patron saint of lost causes.

We, Reformed Christians, reject such prayers for several reasons. First, there is no reason at all to think that such prayers will be heard and understood by the dead. Second, not only does Scripture not encourage attempted communication with the dead, it condemns such attempts as witchcraft and necromancy. Third, the use of such prayers suggests a lack of faith in the efficacy of prayers directly to the Father. Fourth, the use of such prayers suggests a desire for the mediation of someone other than Christ, an issue that flows over into the next section, below.

This is one of those areas where Roman Catholic apologists are very eager these days to recast the issue in terms like "we're just asking our fellow believers to pray for us, are you saying that's wrong?" The answer to that question is that we do not object to asking fellow believers to pray for us. In fact, we ought to do so. James 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

However, while many of the prayers to the dead are explicitly prayers that the dead would hear the person and pray to God for the person, that simply avoids the most grotesque abuses of the practice, such as when things are requested specifically from the saints or Mary, which are not theirs to give (such as success, grace, salvation, etc.). Those prayers (meta-prayers that request prayer by the saint to whom the prayers are offered) suffer from the objections as to the lack of warrant or example from the Scriptures as well as from the apparent view that these saints are to serve as mediators rather than Christ. As this is not a direct answer to the Romanist objections, I won't go on at greater length here.

3. Prayers Through the Dead

Roman Catholics sometimes explicitly, sometimes implicitly, offer up prayers that are through the dead. For example, the "Approved Prayer for the intercession of Pope John Paul II" (link) is a prayer that is not for John Paul II (JP2) or to JP2 but it is through JP2. It is addressed to God, "O Holy Trinity," but it requests that something be granted "Grant us," via the intercession of JP2 "through his intercession ... ."

Other times the request is more indirect. For example, sometimes when Mary (or others) are entreated it is suggested (as a justification) that since "the prayer of a righteous man availeth much" that the more righteous a person is, the more their prayer will avail (although, of course, the Scriptures do not teach such any such formula). Consequently, the idea is that we are asking these creatures to intercede before God on the basis of the merits that are theirs.

The connection between the two can be seen in this prayer to God pleading the merit and intercession of Rita of Cascia:

O God! who didst deign to confer on St. Rita for imitating Thee in love of her enemies, the favor of bearing her heart and brow the marks of Thy Love and Passion, grant we beseech Thee, that through her intercession and merit, we may, pierced by the thorns of compunction, ever contemplate the sufferings of Thy Passion, who livest and reignest forever and ever. Amen.

(emphasis added - source)

See this similar prayer to God through Mary:

Prayer to Our Lady of Light

O radiant beam of celestial clarity,
O spotless Mother of infinite purity,
O seat of Wisdom and divine reliquary
of the Word Incarnate,
Hear my prayer,
O Queen of Light!
O Blessed Trinity,
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,
You glorified my Mother, Mary,
as Queen of heaven and earth
and gave to her the gift of holding
Your Omnipotence in her holy hands,
Graciously grant what I seek
through her merits and intercession.
Amen.

(emphasis added - source)

This can be further seen within the writings of Roman Catholicism. For example, Pious XII quotes with approval from a writing attributed to Eadmer (circa A.D. 1060 to circa A.D. 1124) as follows: "just as . . . God, by making all through His power, is Father and Lord of all, so the blessed Mary, by repairing all through her merits, is Mother and Queen of all; for God is the Lord of all things, because by His command He establishes each of them in its own nature, and Mary is the Queen of all things, because she restores each to its original dignity through the grace which she merited." (Ad Caeli Reginam (To the Queen of Heaven) section 36 - link)

It also can be seen in the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" section 956:

956 The intercession of the saints. "Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness.... They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus.... So by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped."

(emphases and elipses in original - footnote omitted - source)

This is the point at which the Roman Catholic position comes into direct conflict with the unique mediatorial role of Christ (despite the contrary claim - anticipating this assertion of ours - that you see in CCC 956). Only by Christ's merits can we come before God. The merits of a mere man (like John Paul II, even assuming he were a godly man) are of infinitesimal value compared with the righteousness of Christ.

It is by Christ and by Christ alone that we have access to the Father - not by Mary, not by the saints. Even when we ask our fellow believers to pray for us, we do not (or at least we certainly ought not) ask them to do so on the basis of their own merits, but alone on the basis of Christ's merits.

We give token of this when we conclude our prayers, "in Jesus' name, Amen." That expression "In Jesus' name" is asking that God consider our prayer on the basis of Christ's merits, not our own. However, when someone prays the approved prayer for JP2's intercession, they are praying for God to consider JP2's merits. The same is the case (in general) with any prayers that are made either through or to the deceased in the Roman Catholic schema.

Conclusion

Prayers are to be offered through the merits of Christ and in the name of Christ. We are exhorted and encouraged to do so by Scripture:

John 16:23-27
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 14:12-14
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Ephesians 3:11-12
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Hebrews 10:19-22
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

1 Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

So let us pray in the name of the Lord to the Lord God Almighty, for the living, eschewing the superstition of praying for the dead, for it is written:

1 John 5:16-17
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Psalm 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

2 Corinthians 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Hebrews 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Psalm 95:7-11
7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. 10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: 11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

If you are an unbeliever reading this, seize the day to repent of your sins and turn to Christ. Today you have life and hope, but tomorrow you may be in the grave, and in that grave no prayers will save you. So, if you do not trust in Christ alone for salvation, turn from your sins and set aside all other hope, placing it in Him alone for there is no other name under heaven by which men can be saved.

-TurretinFan

[terycarl]

Man’s Work: Catholic Church = Only Interpretation God’s Word will still rule, when the Catholic Church and every other man made denomination is destroyed.

The Catholic church is the authority on interpreting God's word....every one who reads it is not necessarily able to determine exactly what it means....and that fact is shown on this thread CONSTANTLY.

The Catholic church, unlike the man made denominations will never end...Christ promised to be with her until the end of time and He has 2,015 years under His belt as we speak

Forever means Forever.

[Faith Presses On]

And the matter is hardly just actual sins. The actual sins (the ones we’re aware of) are just part of our sinfulness, and sinful attitudes. They are to remind us that we aren’t good, and never have been, and despite our “working on it” (which will produce pride, for sure), we are still that same sinner, in the flesh. We are still sinning, if only more subtly and less noticeably to ourselves and others. Any grace we have is from God. Our true prayer should always be along the humble lines of the publican who cried out, “God be merciful to me, a sinner!” When we credit ourselves anything, even that we deserve credit for being sorry for our sins, then we start to see ourselves as better than others, as the Pharisee in the parable did.

[Iscool]

I really like it how each of y’all speaks for how everybody else believes. Everybody is his own chief, each speaking for the same thousand tribes.

We are united in Jesus Christ...

It ought to amaze you that we are from all over the Country but we agree on most everything Christian wise...Isn't it odd how that our teaching authority is the bible and yet with all of our own (accused) millions of interpretations, we still agree with each other???

[MamaB]

It has not been shown at all. Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact.

[ebb tide]

I thought you said all those denominations taught you the Bible.

Did none of them teach you:

Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

[MamaB]

Jesus, not a man.

[ebb tide]

Isn't it odd how that our teaching authority is the bible and yet with all of our own (accused) millions of interpretations, we still agree with each other???

If you all agree with each other, why do you have so many tribes and why is everybody tribe-hopping?

[Iscool]

Just one correction...Adam and Eve didn’t eat an apple. It was a banana...because it had appeal. ;o)

Coulda been a potato tree...

[ebb tide]

Peter was a man. Are you rejecting Scripture?

[GGpaX4DumpedTea]

“The Catholic church, unlike the man made denominations will never end...”

Just so you know, ALL religions/denominations are man-made...that especially includes the Roman Catholic church.

[ebb tide]

Just so you know, ALL religions/denominations are man-made...that especially includes the Roman Catholic church.

Nope, you've got it wrong. There in only one religion made by God, the Catholic religion.

[boatbums]

Bunk. The Septuagint was accepted by all of Christianity and remained complete until Luther had to throw Scripture in the garbage to avoid direct contradictions to his heresy.

The only "bunk" being slept in here is the one you continue to try to throw the sheet over! You've been corrected dozens of times yet never seem to learn the difference. Let's try again...

The Septuagint was an Alexandrian TRANSLATION into Greek of the Hebrew Old Testament Scriptures. Along the way, other writings were added that either were NOT part of Hebrew Scriptures - but were seen as "historical" in nature and relevant to the Jewish people in Greek speaking areas - or were ALREADY written in Greek and didn't need to be translated. There were numerous versions of the Septuagint and they vary as to which books are in them and which are not a part. Nevertheless - and this is the MEAT of the issue, Rash - the Septuagint was NEVER viewed as a "canon" by ANYONE!

One important point you just never seem to address even when you are reminded over and over is that, just because a book was included in the Septuagint, was NO proof that it was Divinely-inspired Scripture. Remember I told you this before? There are FIFTEEN (15) extra-canonical books in the Septuagint, yet the Roman Catholic church only picked SEVEN (7) of them to be in the official RCC canon. So the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH threw "Scripture" in the garbage according to your logic, not Luther. Will you address these points for once or will they be conveniently ignored so that ALL non-Catholic Christians can be condemned in one fell swoop on a man who died five hundred years ago who wasn't even anyone's pope? What'll it be???

[boatbums]

Did potatoes grow on trees in the Garden of Eden? Maybe... ;o)

[Iscool]

Then why do the Prots have different beliefs on the immorality of birth control, pre-marital sex, abortion, homosexual relations, etc. Why do they have different beliefs on ordaining female or homo as ministers and bishops?

I wouldn't be so quick to point the finger if I were you...Your religion is certainly not a bastion of morality...Your church rules may say one thing but you have just as many abortions, live-in mates, contraception and queers as any other religion...Plus, your religion is known for its queer priests and child molesters...

Being a non bible believer you miss out on all the things God has to say to Israel and his church...

Amo 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Amo 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Your religion didn't always forbid the marrying of its clergy...

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

We are living in the last times...Has nothing to do with what denomination one lives in...

These scriptures and hundreds more just like them tell us and YOU that the REAL church is getting smaller...It's not the ecumenical behemoth that your Catholic religion is trying to build...

Sure, the numbers are growing, in China and other places but are they getting the real words of God??? Are they getting saved???

[caww]

Very interesting...informative as well...thank you.

[boatbums]

How utterly amazing that a simple thread explaining why Reformed faiths generally reject the doctrines of prayers to and for the dead, Purgatory and the intercession of dead Saints immediately fostered a backlash of accusations of "hate", "Catholic bashing", spreading of discord and ignorance of Catholic doctrine. That is the knee-jerk reaction of some here who have NO problem at all when Catholics post threads that criticize and counter non-Catholic beliefs and assert they alone have the fullness of the Christian faith, but DARE post a thread that can be seen as critical of their beliefs and the fur starts flying!

The article was in no way insulting or bashing of Catholics and should not have been taken as such. The hair-trigger "feelings" of those who DID take offense only proves that they do not have the temperament to join in OPEN Religion Forum threads. It's too bad they succeed in side tracking and diverting the actual topic. It's one that all Christians should not be afraid to address. Though it is not what could be called a "salvific" issue, it is still an area that would benefit us all to talk about. Personally, I do not see this as a detriment to having a FULL Christian faith and I'm not at all afraid to explain why.

[Iscool]

If you all agree with each other, why do you have so many tribes and why is everybody tribe-hopping?

We are different tribes just like the Holy Mary Catholic church in Tiptonville, Tennessee is a different tribe than the St. Thomas Catholic church just down the street in Tiptonville, Tennessee...

[Iscool]

Nope, you've got it wrong. There in only one religion made by God, the Catholic religion.

That would be the same God as the muzlim's, right???

[caww]

..."There in only one religion made by God, the Catholic religion"....

You might want to talk to the Jewish folks about that....and then read your Bible..not exactly in that order.

And they are still here...

[boatbums]

Thanks. Unfortunately, the truth will go in one ear (eye?) and out the other for some and they'll go right back to spewing the same bunk they always have.

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. (II Tim. 3:7)