Ping!
Can't be a Catholic thread without knocking Protestants!
I’m not getting anything wrong about it. I do not pray to Saints. I pray to God.
Interesting article.
In that it REFUTES and CONTRADICTS all the Catholic Freepers who have denied for years Proddy assertions that Catholics pray to Saints.
My question is, why would I NEED to pray to a Saint? It’s not like God is too busy to hear my prayer. He is infinite, all-seeing and all-knowing.
So, even if I do to pray to a Saint, He knows about my prayer well before the Saint has a chance to pass it on to Him.
The question I would ask is, would a Christian ask another Christian to PRAY for him or her as well to God?
It is simply to ASK those home with God to PRAY to GOD for you!
It is called the “communion the saints.”
“But the first premise — that the faithful departed are dead — is false, and directly contrary to Scripture.”
Unless you are Jesus Christ, you don’t know who is living in heaven and who is not, since we don’t have the ability to see into peoples’ hearts and judge how faithful they were. Since none of us here are Jesus Christ, we cannot assume someone who has passed on is actually alive in heaven. We can hope, but we can’t assume.
Prepositions are our friends. Prayers FOR others are supported in scripture. Prayers TO each other, which is what the article admits is going on between earthbound believers and saints in heaven is not scriptural.
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of Witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us...Hebrews 12:1
Wonder why Paul needs witnesses? Isn’t God enough?
Praying to the dead is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.” The story of Saul consulting a medium to bring up the spirit of the dead Samuel resulted in his death “because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance” (1 Samuel 28:1-25; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14). Clearly, God has declared that such things are not to be done.
http://www.gotquestions.org/praying-to-the-dead.html
Could you produce the infallible interpretation of this part of Hebrews for us??
This proves the complete inability of Romanists to rightly interpret the word of God.. it is sad
Lets look at this
THERE WERE NO CHAPTERS IN THE EPISTLES WHEN WRITTEN ...So Chapter 11 and Chapter 12 are the same topic..
So what is the topic of chapter 11???
IT IS THE ROLL CALL OF SAINTS SAVED BY FAITH4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
THEY WERE WITNESSES TO US... NOT WITNESSING US
The Saints who have passed aren't dead. Neither are they asleep in the ground. Corrinthians 5 says that to be absent the body is to be present with Christ. It doesn't make sense that we would sleep in the ground when there is no condemnation against us.
Scripture is very supportive of enlisting others to prayer. "where two or more are gathered.." And that's what I understand Roman Catholic theology is basically advocating.
But are the saints omnipresent that they can hear our prayers? or omniscient that they can know our thoughts if the prayer is not voiced? Because if they aren't, then for the saints to hear the prayers, then the Holy Spirit is going to have to pass the prayers to them in order for them to hear.
So without looking down on the catholic practice of praying to the saints, it always made sense to me, to just go straight to the source, to "boldly enter the throne room" and lay our petitions before Him. Or to enlist the help of living saints, rather than enlist the help of past saints which may or may not be able to hear or which might be inundated.
Most Protestants find the subject superfluous
Why pray to a Saint
when one has a straight connection to G.D
I’ve never prayed to a saint, but I have have asked the saints to pray for me.
(1 Corinthians 6:1-2; 1 Corinthians 16:1,15; 2 Corinthians 1:1; 2 Corinthians 13:13; Ephesians 1:1,15,18, etc.)
“shameless popery”
No bias there, eh?
Again, RCC writers just cannot simply write an article about what they believe without saying what “protestants” - A DEROGATORY TERM, just as I’ve been reminded about what RCC Folks consider derogatory terms - are wrong about.
They can’t help backhand slam other denominations while explaining their own.
Just write what you believe without being dicks to other denominations. To say this is merely instructive is dishonest, it can be done without taking digs into others.
Thanks!
Ping
Besides, what's the pecking order for saints hearing prayers? Or do you give strictly divine qualities, i.e., omniscience, to the saints?
How did Jesus teach us to pray? Was it to a statue? or an icon? or at a particular time? Was it to the local priest, or past relatives or even the Saints?
No, Jesus told us to pray to God the father.
Given the option of how and to whom to pray, I will follow Jesus’ teachings.