- Show me where that has happened.
A scintilla here, a scintilla there, and before one can say
- jack can't jump over a candlestick because he is the candlestick
Posted on 04/19/2015 6:52:52 PM PDT by Salvation
http://www.aleteia.org/en/video/on-trial-for-being-catholic-5836428944605184
Watch the video. It says it all.
I think you are requiring faith to be perfect after the moment of acceptance, and for this perfection to merit your salvation. I.e. works salvation again, but through the back door.
It won’t be perfect. No matter what the shingle outside the building where you worship. We need to ask but one thing: was the acceptance of Christ genuine. If so, at that moment it penetrated to all eternity. Whatever happens elsewhere in the time line of the mortal coil is a matter of mop-up, not of merit.
Quite so, which is why I reject your rejection.
Haw!
Faith in what? Perfect faith simply means to put your full faith and trust in Christ alone. In that regard it is perfect faith, yes. And yes it is required.
>>and for this perfection to merit your salvation.<<
Woooops! No "meriting" incurred. Only submission and acceptance that Jesus did it all. It was even the faith of Jesus given us by God whereby we believe.
Galatians 2:20 “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”
Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
It's not even our own faith but the faith of Christ through us whereby we are saved. No "merit" on our part.
But this is the conundrum, NO act of ours will be perfect, NONE on this mortal coil, NONE NONE NONE. Not even faith...
Do YOU have this perfect faith? Are you SURE? (David: Who can discern his own errors?) If there is some flaw in it, no matter how little, how about looking to YOUR knitting before lecturing THE REST OF US.
I rather rely on this, that my flawed faith is placed in a perfect Savior, who has already provided to overcome the problems.
>>But this is the conundrum, NO act of ours will be perfect, NONE on this mortal coil, NONE NONE NONE. Not even faith...<<
James 2:22 dost thou see that the faith was working with his works, and out of the works the faith was made perfect?
Just can’t have a rational discussion with some people.
You still haven’t presented any support for your contention that the “Roman church” gets “hissy” about evangelicals.
Oh no, you’re so right. The RCC has no problems with them at all. Carry on, and we’re focused on the same Jesus, and in heaven our problems will be resolved.
Er, I don’t think so.
“Er, I don’t think so.”
That opinion is exceedingly odd. But then, we all think the old joke ( “Quiet, they think they’re the only ones in Heaven.”) only applies to others.
A scintilla here, a scintilla there, and before one can say
Well, it didn’t take long for this little discussion to hit rock bottom.
If you are implying that I have some sort of problem with evangelicals, I will tell you that several of the most important people in my life were Christians of the stripe now called evangelical.
Do you even care whether the things you say are true?
Never mind; I’m out.
Fine. Wonderful. I could believe that. Yet what does that have to do with yourself having said;
Are you the "Roman church"?
If not (but yet small part, just one person among many) then how would your own views (whatever those are) and positive personal experiences with evangelical types invalidate HiTech Redneck's initial observation?
That is what the real issue originally was;
Remains subject to. How well put. I simply must agree.
You yourself may not view Church as Cause, but due to how wording and descriptions are oftentimes used by those of the RCC as for what the Roman Catholic Church ecclesiastical association is said to be -- it can be concluded that many Catholic may view Church (and chiefly the 'Roman' portions of that) as Cause.
The mistaken view (of apparently some, even if not yourself holding that view) of Church being Cause comes about for reason that the wordings used to identify The Church™, such as being the Body of Christ upon earth, etc., are often spoken of in such manner that needful distinctions as for the true identity of Christ (and thus God the Father also) in comparison to those whom are called unto Him, are often blurred.
Body of Christ=Church?
Body of Christ = consecrated communion wafer?
Body of Christ = teachings of the self-reverentially, self-named 'Magesterium'? As far as remaining in boundary of the Great Commission, I would say "yes".
Yet when or if stepping outside and beyond that Commission, then it quite often must be "no" -- it's not Him (upon earth), but instead is what men *think* and say about Him, their behavior and doctrine(s) betraying that *they* (whomever) are not Him, much at all...
Yes I do care. Men such as Jan Hus and Jerome of Prague (and how many others?) were turned into candlesticks...
And why were they burnt but for having opposed tenets and viewpoints held by many in position of 'authority' within the RCC of those times?
To oppose the Effect (the Church) was seen to oppose the Cause (God, Himself) thus those in positions of perceived authority within the Church RCC, acting in self-perceived role of God upon earth, would destroy those whom opposed themselves.
Was it God who lit those fires that physically burned Hus, his compatriot Jerome (and yet others)?
I really don’t know where you get all that stuff, but you really ought to seek out better information—oh, and read threads more carefully.
I got a lot of what I wrote about from the comments & conversation here, providing links as I went along...but you tell me that you don't know???
The central portion of my own comment to you, concerning Cause & Effect, was a re-direct back toward an important point which another raised. Perhaps I am speaking over your head...
Concerning what? I can guess, but why bother? We don't want to go through that again, now do we? ;^')
The only significant portion (to what I was speaking towards) which I left out, was just how God can be present within us (which unites Cause with those being "effected" by that same Cause).
Now that's almost hilarious. Were you trying to to make a little joke? A little comic relief can be good thing, but you seemed to have been saying that seriously.
When being a Christian is a crime, will the court have enough evidence to convict you?
And, by the way, Salvation, there will be lots of Catholics in the camp with you, so suck it up.
Jim I was not referring specifically to Salvation, the “you” in my statement was anyone who claims to be a Christian, including myself.
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