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Fathers and Daughters – Is This a Missing Key to Modesty Today?
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 03-25-15 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 03/26/2015 8:25:50 AM PDT by Salvation

Fathers and Daughters – Is This a Missing Key to Modesty Today?

By: Msgr. Charles Pope

http://blog.adw.org/wp-content/uploads/modesty.jpg

We often speak today of the terrible toll that fatherless homes have on young boys. And this is true. Without a reasonably good (even though not sinless) model of manhood and responsibility, many boys lose their way. Fathers also play a large role in disciplining boys, especially as they grow older and become  stronger than their mothers.

But missing fathers also bring forth terrible effects on many girls. Women, even young girls, certainly do seek and desire the love and appreciation of men and have a desire to be thought of as precious, beautiful, and lovable. Ideally a father is able to model for his daughter that a man can appreciate and love her for her own sake, apart from merely her physical charms and “curves.”

Learning this seems critical for a young girl, who is then able to discern the difference between this and the love of other men who may desire her in a more sexual way. That they have sexual desire for her is not wrong per se, but neither is it wrong for her to know that she is lovable for her own sake. Simply loving her for her physical charms is lust. True love is loving her her for her own sake. And even if sexual attraction is part of the picture, it is only part and she can know the difference. Having recognized that a man (in the first case her father) can love her in this fuller way, she is able to insist on it and discern when a young man’s “love” is too narrow.

However, when a young girl does not learn this from her father, she likely still craves the approval of men. But not having learned from her father how to discern the attention of men and not having experienced that she is lovable for her own sake beyond mere physical beauty, she will often confuse the attention that is lust with the love and approval she really seeks.

While I am no professional sociologist, it seems to me that there is a rather strong correlation between the decline of fathers in the home and the rise of immodesty among women. As a man, I find this rise odd and ponder why immodesty is so widespread among women. Why do so many women like to wear short skirts and tight clothes (which seem so uncomfortable) and walk about beaches in a state of almost complete nudity (bikinis)? Something is amiss and way out of balance.

At one level, I have come to discover (through discussions with women on the issue of modesty) that many (especially younger) women really don’t have any idea the effect that they have on men. I have confirmed this in discussion with our Sunday school teenagers. In discussions moderated by women, many young girls just haven’t figured it all out yet. When asked, “Why do you dress that (provocative) way?” they often say, “I don’t know, it’s … like … y’know … comfortable??? … It’s like … cool???”

While some of them may be fibbing, and really do know why, I don’t doubt that, to some degree, there is an innocence about what they do that needs to be schooled. In the past, fathers could help in this regard. Some years ago I remember a remarkable little passage by John Eldridge, in the Book, Wild at Heart that decoded something I have noticed even in the youngest girls:

And finally, every woman wants to have a beauty to unveil. Not to conjure, but to unveil. Most women feel the pressure to be beautiful from very young, but that is not what I speak of. There is also a deep desire to simply and truly be the beauty, and be delighted in. Most little girls will remember playing dress up, or wedding day, or twirling skirts, those flowing dresses that were perfect for spinning around in. She’ll put her pretty dress on, come into the living room and twirl. What she longs for is to capture her daddy’s delight. My wife remembers standing on top of the coffee table as a girl of five or six, and singing her heart out. Do you see me? asks the heart of every girl. And are you captivated by what you see? (Kindle edition Loc 367-83)

Perhaps it is this innocence that has gone somehow wrong, has been untutored, causing some young girls to dress immodestly. And many of them bring that into adulthood.

But even if their intentions are innocent, it is not wrong to teach girls that not everyone views their display so innocently and further that some boys/men are deeply troubled by the temptation it brings, especially as these girls get a bit older.

There is surely a time to provoke and celebrate a sexual appeal and joy: in the marriage bed. But outside this context, women ought to be seen more richly as wives, mothers, sisters, daughters, teachers, and scientists, indeed as whole persons with interests, needs, concerns, and richly varied lives. Fathers can have a critical role in teaching this to both their sons and their daughters.

In the past when I saw an immodestly attired young woman I would ask, “Where is her mother?” Increasingly I also ask, “Where is her father?” She doesn’t seem to understand men. She wants the attention of men but in a way that presses all the wrong buttons. Maybe she’s never considered that a man can and should love her for her own sake, beyond her physical attributes. Maybe she never had the chance to twirl her skirts before a father who delighted in her but without sexual motives, who could tell her she was beautiful and wonderful without the desire to exploit. Maybe she’s still craving this delight but is now twirling her skirts and revealing her beauty to men who cannot, or will not, admire her with such pure motives. And maybe she can’t tell the difference between lust (exploitative desire) and love (desire of her for her own sake) because she never had a father, a good father, there to model the difference.

Anyway, I know women are complicated and that I’m probably going to get killed by both women and men for this post. But before you lay me out, consider for your comment why you think immodesty is so widespread in our culture? I would appreciate it if we could avoid the “men are pigs”, or “these young girls dress like sluts” types of comments. I’m looking for understanding more than venting. I know we all have strong opinions about this topic and that some don’t believe there is in fact any immodesty at all (even in a tiny bikini (a view I think that requires real denial or serious blindness). But the point I’d like to ponder is why.

I have written more on the questions of modesty here:

  1. Modesty is Reverence for Mystery
  2. Modesty and Men
  3. A School Finally Cracks Down


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: boys; catholic; daughter; daughters; daughtersandfathers; family; father; fathers; fathersanddaughters; females; feminism; girls; innocence; manhood; marriage; men; modesty; moralabsolutes; parents; sex; sexualdesire; teens; virtues; women
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Somehow a great sense of modesty was instilled in me too. My wedding dress had long sleeves and a high neckline.
1 posted on 03/26/2015 8:25:50 AM PDT by Salvation
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Monsignor Pope Ping!


2 posted on 03/26/2015 8:26:32 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Video
3 posted on 03/26/2015 8:28:28 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
We have for some time now had to remind the girls and the parents that confirmation dresses should not look like cocktail dresses.

But could it just be the clothes? When I got married 8 years ago. I had a hard time finding a dress that had sleeves and a neckline.

4 posted on 03/26/2015 8:34:26 AM PDT by defconw (Fight all error, and do it with good humor, patience, kindness and love. -St. John Cantius)
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To: Salvation

I think we have found agreement ..:)


5 posted on 03/26/2015 8:35:32 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Salvation
Also from the way back machine, girls have been going out of the house looking like Puritans and then going to the mall, school. etc. and changing into clothes that their parents would not have approved of. So it might just be a girl thing.
6 posted on 03/26/2015 8:36:14 AM PDT by defconw (Fight all error, and do it with good humor, patience, kindness and love. -St. John Cantius)
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To: Salvation

If you keep speaking this like this, there’s going to be a whole lot of future stripper poles that are going to be lonely.


7 posted on 03/26/2015 8:36:18 AM PDT by skinndogNN
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To: Salvation

Very insightful and compassionate.

It really opened my heart toward girls with missing fathers. I knew well how boys often turn out so much worse without fathers (prisons are full of them), but this opened my eyes to the sad effects on girls.


8 posted on 03/26/2015 8:37:42 AM PDT by BeauBo
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To: Salvation

How refreshing; I’m disgusted by the strapless gowns we see all the time.


9 posted on 03/26/2015 8:42:23 AM PDT by CorporateStepsister (I am NOT going to force a man to make my dreams come true)
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To: Salvation

Fathers do matter, but as (IMO) women now tend to rule the roost, men don’t have a say in what their daughters wear. We’ve heard them grumble about it, but the wives just say men don’t have any fashion sense and allow their daughters to look like stylish hookers.


10 posted on 03/26/2015 8:43:35 AM PDT by NorthstarMom
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To: Salvation
I can't fully express my gratitude for MGD's unwavering commitment to being both Father and Daddy to our girls.

As they were growing up, I often told them their example of what to look for in a man was right in front of them - that they should not expect anything less than being treated the way their dad treated them (and me).

My oldest is married to an amazing young man, and one of the twins has also found a young man of similar character and integrity.

The other twin is unattached, but as she is the "pickiest" of the three in all things, I have no doubts that whomever is meant for her will meet her very high standards.

11 posted on 03/26/2015 8:46:28 AM PDT by Mygirlsmom (Scott Walker wins elections. In blue places. See Buckley Rule......)
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To: defconw

I take it to be our media and popular culture.

Young women today are adamant about yes, wanting equal rights that earlier feminists fought for, but also not wanting to sacrifice their sense of femininity and sexuality with that. As a result, they all too often look to dress something closer to that traditionally associated with prostitution than with “femininity”.

It is simply their understanding of how to express their interest in men.

And it is sad.


12 posted on 03/26/2015 8:47:57 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: Salvation
How 1950s. How eternally true!

We raised three great daughters who've given us (so far) four beautiful grandchildren.

All of them were beautiful and taught to be modest as well. I'll never forget how proud I was of my youngest daughter the day she came home after a week at a Christian youth camp. She took about half the clothes out of her closet and and asked me to drive her over to Goodwill.

But those clothes are, at worst, borderline, I protested. And you bought them with your own money!

"True Christians don't push against fences," she replied. "Are you going to drive me over or do I need to call a friend?" Of course, I drove her.

13 posted on 03/26/2015 8:48:54 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: RnMomof7

Thank you.


14 posted on 03/26/2015 8:57:47 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: BeauBo

There is a booklet for churches recommended in one of the comments at the site.


15 posted on 03/26/2015 9:00:00 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NorthstarMom

**women now tend to rule the roost**

But is this what the Bible teaches? Granted I fell into that category more often than not. But I learned.


16 posted on 03/26/2015 9:01:41 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

I think media imaging and shameless fashion marketing to young girls play a greater role. But yes, not having Dad there to try and reel some of the insanity back in definitely does not help.

Worst problem I ever had was my older girl, who used to do her eye makeup like a street-walking raccoon.


17 posted on 03/26/2015 9:02:40 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: CorporateStepsister

in a country club,or winery I say meh. But in church? NO to strapless gowns! What is wrong with people.


18 posted on 03/26/2015 9:02:55 AM PDT by ronniesgal (trying to quit swearing but the liberals don't make this easy!)
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To: NorthstarMom

Bingo!


19 posted on 03/26/2015 9:16:35 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Salvation; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; APatientMan; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Very good stuff here on how essential a father/daughter relationship is....

Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail Responsibility2nd or wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list. FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search [ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


20 posted on 03/26/2015 9:17:09 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (With Great Freedom comes Great Responsibility.)
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